Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather [suffer yourselves to] be defrauded?
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that [your] brethren.
QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS_ JEFF.IN COD SUNDAY_ 59-0628E
388-127 Now, the Bride went up, the remnant left here. And she is the one who come in the second resurrection. “Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection, on which the second death has no power.” That’s right. The second resurrection will be the white throne judgment, then the church… “Don’t you know,” said Paul, “go amongst the unbelievers and the lawyers and so forth when the saints shall judge the earth.” These matters should be judged before the church, not before the unjust magistrates and so forth, but before the church our matters should. There you take one another to the law. And God pity a man that’ll take a Christian to law. That’s right. Paul even dared them to do it.
Shalom to the Bride. I chose to open with these two references in order to give us something to hold on to as we explore the recent sequence of events that inspired the creation of this blog. I remember sitting in a service around October 2010, while my pastor; Madiba spoke of elements within the Message who are attacking it from the inside. He mentioned reading a blog that was aimed specifically at Cloverdale Bibleway’s pastor and spoke of how he had decided to get involved in the debate. My first thoughts were that whatever was happening in Canada should be left to the Canadians and I maintained this sentiment until I decided to have a look at the situation for myself.
I got online and saw what seemed to be an outsider to CBW (Cloverdale Bibleway) and the split group LWF (Living Word Fellowship) attacking the ministry of one Edward F Byskal. The blogger started off under the guise of defending the rights of women within the assembly and not long after, began to focus his/her attention on Ed Byskal himself.
According to vague explanations we have received from some who chose to comment on this(Godsordinances) blog, tsanning is “ a woman preacher from a Pentecostal group that was highly offended by the Bible saying women aren’t to have leadership positions in the house of God, and she naively came to a forum (Bro Alan’s — a message believer in AZ) on Sep-3, 2010 wanting to prove that those who felt women wasn’t supposed to have a leadership position in the church were wrong.A preacher (nickname parryiposte on the forum) from the BC area that wasn’t affiliated with the new church, but claimed to attend CBW for a spell told Tsanning about the indiscretion with the minor which was none of her business.” This is according to ShalomShalom in his comment Submitted on 2011/02/15.
I cannot tell you how ShalomShalom came to this conclusion or where he gets his information as he leaves no references for us to investigate for ourselves. All I can tell you is what I have observed for myself.
Tsanning, by some amazing coup managed to obtain information from what she/he termed “elders” within CBW. The question as to who handed over this information has yet to be answered. In another vague attempt to answer this question, one of the “elders” from the breakaway group said this to Pastor Madiba: “Do you want me to point to a particular former deacon that handed out the letter to various people? He will argue that he did this because Bro. Byskal started making various parts of the letter public and he was simply responding to a deluge of questions from people. He was not elected a deacon at the new church.” Email dated 25-01-2011
As a matter of fact the answer to the question asked is yes, we would like you to point us to this former deacon you mentioned. If he was in fact a deacon, then he had a public office and if you felt that your former pastor was subject to accountability then this standard should be the same for this person you mention as well.
I can’t help but feel that a double standard was applied regarding this issue. I will explain myself. For months on end, the blogger tsanning publicly slandered Ed Byskal. All the while, nobody seemed to mind much about it as I’m sure it suited some people well enough. We published the first post on January 15 2011. In it we asked the still unanswered question about how and why an elder in any assembly could do anything like leak such information. The elder who contacted us pointed us to Bro. Lance Leroux’s Jan 16 sermon where he preached against the blog in question and asked anyone who may have been involved to stop feeding the thing.
Unfortunately, all the details of the letters were already in the public domain and personally, I feel that statement amounted to nothing more than damage control. You have the right to your own assessment.
On tsanning’s blog the detail in which she/he went into were quite shocking. Not only was Ed Byskal named openly but so was his daughter. When the shoe was put on the other foot, we finally got a response. A contributor to our blog decided to name about four individuals involved with the breakaway group. She not only named them but published their contact details and employment histories. All of a sudden; publicity became a problem.
Certain commentors who had been on tsanning’s blog and ours (InGodwetrust..Otherspaycash AKA Dustinthewind AKA BinDerDunDat) expressed dislike to such publicity. This dislike was not expressed when photos of Bro. Ed’s home were put online. It made us start to believe that there was more than a random sequence of events at play.
We got emails from an “elder” and his tone progressively changed. He started out as if he wanted to discuss the issue but when confronted with specific questions concerning the split, he told my pastor Madiba that he was too busy running a multinational company to answer the questions of a lowly pastor from Africa.
He even mentioned the names of other “senior ministers” who he had spent hours on the phone with. What he had discussed during these hours is unknown but he was kind enough to mention the pastors by name. I quote: “ Do you know that I spent hours on the phone with Bro. Barry Coffey, Bro. Donny Reagan, Bro. Ron Peterson and Bro. Paul Lafontaine. Others spent long hours discussing this with Bro. Vin Dayal and other senior ministers that they knew.” Email dated 25-01-2011
Here’s a question:
While speaking with these pastors, was an attempt ever made to bring them all into one place with the presence of Ed Byskal or did the “elder” choose rather to compartmentalize his consultation?
Here’s a quote:
Taking Sides With Jesus
743-3 It was purposed tonight, I thought, as I had a–a dinner not long ago with our most beloved pastor, Brother Neville, and I was saying something to him what was on my heart. And I thought if we get a bunch of men together and the ministers (They’re our colleagues here of the Gospel and men.), we could talk to one another in a way that we wouldn’t talk it before the public, because we’re all and–we’re men that understand as men, Christian men. And that way… Usually in a congregation, a group, you say something, and–and one’ll lean it a little this way, and one’ll lean it that way, and–and then it goes all out. But where we come to try tonight to tell you what I have in my heart of, concerning the church and its a–and its place and its position.
762-82 Now, I think this church… If you men would, when you build this church, make this like your headquarters and like Brother Neville here being like the senior elder among you. See? And sometimes you get a question that you can’t discuss out with your church out there, then bring it in here to Brother Neville and you all discuss it together. If there–you can’t come to any decision, I’ll be coming by pretty soon, then we’ll all come together with it.
Another Brother who has left several comment on the blog said the following in response to the questions posed to him:
Yes, to the best of my understanding the elders were very much in favor of bringing in several outside pastors: Tim Dodds, Dony Reagun, Ron Peterson I believe were some that were mentioned. I don’t know if for sure if it was officially suggested to bro Ed.
If they were in favour of it, did it eventually happen? As many have mentioned, we are a very long way from Canada and we may not know the details of the sequence of events. That is the reason we are left with so many questions. We’ve heard a lot of commentary or shall I say a description of some of the events that transpired. But the core issues raised are still disguised in vague responses and innuendo.
Humour me for a second and maybe regard me as representing one of those that are least esteemed in the Body of Christ.
As Paul said: “ If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church”
Unless we as the Bride feel that a political border is enough to separate us as one body. I do remember the rapture being a worldwide event which shall involve a worldwide Bride. Let’s assume for the sake of this discussion that us [Africans] may fit the criteria of being the least esteemed in this body. Under that “assumption” we then have a Scriptural qualification to judge this issue.
I know some people have wondered how two Brothers in South Africa have had such a keen interest in events that transpired thousands of miles away. I will answer this if you can tell me what It was that made Peter and Paul preach the exact same thing for years before they even met in an age where the luxury of technology was unavailable to allow them to communicate.
The issues at hand are simple. The credibility of this Message is at stake. As your Brothers, we are asking these questions not to criticize or attack but simply to establish the legitimacy of the new assembly. As far as I know, pastors, deacons and office-bearers are ordained in plain view of the public. It seems to us; all the way over here that in the case of those that split from CBW, the process is still shrouded in secrecy. Many names have been mentioned but nothing of substance has been expressed.
Who, if anybody, ordained the new pastor? Did anybody independent from both CBW and LWF witness these ordinations?
Will these breakaway groups be able one day to become assemblies who are respected in their own right or will they always be known as “the ones who left CBW”? Does it matter what we as fellow Believers think or is this strictly a North American issue?
As we progressed in our communication with the “elder” who had contacted Pastor Madiba, he eventually accused us of being “unchristian” and therefore fit for legal discipline. The “elder” went as far as to say that he was going to demand that all our sources of information be provided as part of the discovery process of legal proceedings so that he could also pursue legal action against them.
I mentioned in one post, that the discovery process of legal proceedings went both ways. If we had to give up sources of information, then I’m sure tsanning would have to do the same as well.
We also stated plainly that as long as tsanning continued; we would continue as well. This was in emails to the “elder” and not on the public platform of the blog. Mysteriously; in less than a week after this exchange tsanning announced that he/she would be posting her/his last comment. Does this sound like a coincidence to you? You may decide for yourself.
At the end of it all, the comments on the blog degenerated into squabbles around so-called “doctrinal” issues and hearsay. I repeat, NOTHING about the split has been answered coherently. I suppose that an opinion such as mine may not bear that much weight but someone who claims the same beliefs as the two assemblies I can’t seem to get over the lack of transparency. It’s this lack of transparency that has me asking myself if my brethren have not somewhat been misled by an influence aimed not at their progression but at all our destruction.
I suppose that we can rest on the Scripture that says it is impossible to deceive the Elect and as long as anyone from CBW, LWF or Divine Love Tabernacle is a part of That Body, then they will not be misled by anything or anybody. Let’s pray for one another Brethren and rather than looking to politics or magistrates to solve our conflicts let’s resolve issues as Brothers and Sisters.
At the same time I publish this post, I am going to attempt to contact some of the pastors that were mentioned by the Brothers from the breakaway groups. I’ll use the emails made available on the websites of their various assemblies and invite them to take a look at what has transpired thus far. I suppose it’s only fair to involve them rather than mention their names in vague terms. This will give them an opportunity to speak for themselves if they so wish.
In closing, I’d like to take us all to detach ourselves for a second and examine the promises of the age we are living in. We are expecting a “squeeze” in this hour. We know that this “squeeze” will bring out the true characters that are hidden behind our skins (regardless of colour). The fullness of the revelation of what we contain is not a subject of debate. I’m sure our Brother Ed Byskal can testify to these things. You may find that the more these elements that were feeding this campaign against his ministry tried to apply the pressure; it only produced a stronger character. This is promised to the universal Bride of Jesus Christ. The enemy has already mobilised. Despite the credit that some may give him, he is but a tool in the hand of God, our Father. The whole creation is testifying that the time of the manifestations of the sons of God is here. Everything that was promised is in place and as surprising as it may seem, occurrences like these recent splits may be necessary birth pains to carry us into a new reality.
God bless you all and whatever you decide to do, whatever stance you decide to take, fulfil your purpose to the best of your abilities even if that purpose is the crucifixion of the flesh of Christ’s Bride.
It seems that no matter what you try, you still cannot touch the soul of a Believer. We love you all and may the spiritual maturity allow us to see past our differences and realize that we are the children of the Most High God. Truth be told that when we finally walk around that marriage supper table we surely want to see Bro. Ed and Lance at their respective seats, and the words uttered between them may be: ‘Surely, it was just one big misunderstanding between us. Mercy made a provision that we should be here. Our partial realization became a perfect realization. Who else is here? Brother Tom Rae, Lynda, John Andes, Murphy, Gary White, Rod, Ruth, and our brothers from Africa as well are here. It surely will be a great morning. However, we will continue to hold each other responsible until we meet around that table and no matter how bitter disagreements may be, we should remember that we are carrying the winning flag in this lost age.