Post-Mortem

I CORINTHIANS 6:2

Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

2    Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3    Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

4    If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

5    I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

6    But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

7    Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather [suffer yourselves to] be defrauded?

8    Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that [your] brethren.

QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS_  JEFF.IN  COD  SUNDAY_  59-0628E

388-127 Now, the Bride went up, the remnant left here. And she is the one who come in the second resurrection. “Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection, on which the second death has no power.” That’s right. The second resurrection will be the white throne judgment, then the church… “Don’t you know,” said Paul, “go amongst the unbelievers and the lawyers and so forth when the saints shall judge the earth.” These matters should be judged before the church, not before the unjust magistrates and so forth, but before the church our matters should. There you take one another to the law. And God pity a man that’ll take a Christian to law. That’s right. Paul even dared them to do it.

Shalom to the Bride. I chose to open with these two references in order to give us something to hold on to as we explore the recent sequence of events that inspired the creation of this blog. I remember sitting in a service around October 2010, while my pastor; Madiba spoke of elements within the Message who are attacking it from the inside. He mentioned reading a blog that was aimed specifically at Cloverdale Bibleway’s pastor and spoke of how he had decided to get involved in the debate. My first thoughts were that whatever was happening in Canada should be left to the Canadians and I maintained this sentiment until I decided to have a look at the situation for myself.

I got online and saw what seemed to be an outsider to CBW (Cloverdale Bibleway) and the split group LWF (Living Word Fellowship) attacking the ministry of one Edward F Byskal. The blogger started off under the guise of defending the rights of women within the assembly and not long after, began to focus his/her attention on Ed Byskal himself.

According to vague explanations we have received from some who chose to comment on this(Godsordinances) blog, tsanning is  “ a woman preacher from a Pentecostal group that was highly offended by the Bible saying women aren’t to have leadership positions in the house of God, and she naively came to a forum (Bro Alan’s — a message believer in AZ) on Sep-3, 2010 wanting to prove that those who felt women wasn’t supposed to have a leadership position in the church were wrong.A preacher (nickname parryiposte on the forum) from the BC area that wasn’t affiliated with the new church, but claimed to attend CBW for a spell told Tsanning about the indiscretion with the minor which was none of her business.” This is according to ShalomShalom in his comment Submitted on 2011/02/15.

I cannot tell you how ShalomShalom came to this conclusion or where he gets his information as he leaves no references for us to investigate for ourselves. All I can tell you is what I have observed for myself.

Tsanning, by some amazing coup managed to obtain information from what she/he termed “elders” within CBW. The question as to who handed over this information has yet to be answered. In another vague attempt to answer this question, one of the “elders” from the breakaway group said this to Pastor Madiba: “Do you want me to point to a particular former deacon that handed out the letter to various people?  He will argue that he did this because Bro. Byskal started making various parts of the letter public and he was simply responding to a deluge of questions from people.  He was not elected a deacon at the new church.”  Email dated 25-01-2011

As a matter of fact the answer to the question asked is yes, we would like you to point us to this former deacon you mentioned. If he was in fact a deacon, then he had a public office and if you felt that your former pastor was subject to accountability then this standard should be the same for this person you mention as well.

I can’t help but feel that a double standard was applied regarding this issue. I will explain myself. For months on end, the blogger tsanning publicly slandered Ed Byskal. All the while, nobody seemed to mind much about it as I’m sure it suited some people well enough. We published the first post on January 15 2011. In it we asked the still unanswered question about how and why an elder in any assembly could do anything like leak such information. The elder who contacted us pointed us to Bro. Lance Leroux’s Jan 16 sermon where he preached against the blog in question and asked anyone who may have been involved to stop feeding the thing.

Unfortunately, all the details of the letters were already in the public domain and personally, I feel that statement amounted to nothing more than damage control. You have the right to your own assessment.

On tsanning’s blog the detail in which she/he went into were quite shocking. Not only was Ed Byskal named openly but so was his daughter. When the shoe was put on the other foot, we finally got a response. A contributor to our blog decided to name about four individuals involved with the breakaway group. She not only named them but published their contact details and employment histories. All of a sudden; publicity became a problem.

Certain commentors who had been on tsanning’s blog and ours (InGodwetrust..Otherspaycash AKA Dustinthewind AKA BinDerDunDat) expressed dislike to such publicity. This dislike was not expressed when photos of Bro. Ed’s home were put online. It made us start to believe that there was more than a random sequence of events at play.

We got emails from an “elder” and his tone progressively changed. He started out as if he wanted to discuss the issue but when confronted with specific questions concerning the split, he told my pastor Madiba that he was too busy running a multinational company to answer the questions of a lowly pastor from Africa.

He even mentioned the names of other “senior ministers” who he had spent hours on the phone with. What he had discussed during these hours is unknown but he was kind enough to mention the pastors by name. I quote: “ Do you know that I spent hours on the phone with Bro. Barry Coffey, Bro. Donny Reagan, Bro. Ron Peterson and Bro. Paul Lafontaine.  Others spent long hours discussing this with Bro. Vin Dayal and other senior ministers that they knew.” Email dated 25-01-2011

Here’s a question:

While speaking with these pastors, was an attempt ever made to bring them all into one place with the presence of Ed Byskal or did the “elder” choose rather to compartmentalize his consultation?

Here’s a quote:

Taking Sides With Jesus
743-3 It was purposed tonight, I thought, as I had a–a dinner not long ago with our most beloved pastor, Brother Neville, and I was saying something to him what was on my heart. And I thought if we get a bunch of men together and the ministers (They’re our colleagues here of the Gospel and men.), we could talk to one another in a way that we wouldn’t talk it before the public, because we’re all and–we’re men that understand as men, Christian men. And that way… Usually in a congregation, a group, you say something, and–and one’ll lean it a little this way, and one’ll lean it that way, and–and then it goes all out. But where we come to try tonight to tell you what I have in my heart of, concerning the church and its a–and its place and its position.
762-82 Now, I think this church… If you men would, when you build this church, make this like your headquarters and like Brother Neville here being like the senior elder among you. See? And sometimes you get a question that you can’t discuss out with your church out there, then bring it in here to Brother Neville and you all discuss it together. If there–you can’t come to any decision, I’ll be coming by pretty soon, then we’ll all come together with it.

Another Brother who has left several comment on the blog said the following in response to the questions posed to him:

February 28, 2011 at 12:39 AM

Bro Madiba

Yes, to the best of my understanding the elders were very much in favor of bringing in several outside pastors: Tim Dodds, Dony Reagun, Ron Peterson I believe were some that were mentioned. I don’t know if for sure if it was officially suggested to bro Ed.

If they were in favour of it, did it eventually happen? As many have mentioned, we are a very long way from Canada and we may not know the details of the sequence of events. That is the reason we are left with so many questions. We’ve heard a lot of commentary or shall I say a description of some of the events that transpired. But the core issues raised are still disguised in vague responses and innuendo.

Humour me for a second and maybe regard me as representing one of those that are least esteemed in the Body of Christ.

As Paul said: “ If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church”

Unless we as the Bride feel that a political border is enough to separate us as one body. I do remember the rapture being a worldwide event which shall involve a worldwide Bride. Let’s assume for the sake of this discussion that us [Africans] may fit the criteria of being the least esteemed in this body. Under that “assumption” we then have a Scriptural qualification to judge this issue.

I know some people have wondered how two Brothers in South Africa have had such a keen interest in events that transpired thousands of miles away. I will answer this if you can tell me what It was that made Peter and Paul preach the exact same thing for years before they even met in an age where the luxury of technology was unavailable to allow them to communicate.

The issues at hand are simple. The credibility of this Message is at stake. As your Brothers, we are asking these questions not to criticize or attack but simply to establish the legitimacy of the new assembly. As far as I know, pastors, deacons and office-bearers are ordained in plain view of the public. It seems to us; all the way over here that in the case of those that split from CBW, the process is still shrouded in secrecy. Many names have been mentioned but nothing of substance has been expressed.

Who, if anybody, ordained the new pastor? Did anybody independent from both CBW and LWF witness these ordinations?

Will these breakaway groups be able one day to become assemblies who are respected in their own right or will they always be known as “the ones who left CBW”? Does it matter what we as fellow Believers think or is this strictly a North American issue?

As we progressed in our communication with the “elder” who had contacted Pastor Madiba, he eventually accused us of being  “unchristian” and therefore fit for legal discipline. The “elder” went as far as to say that he was going to demand that all our sources of information be provided as part of the discovery process of legal proceedings so that he could also pursue legal action against them.

I mentioned in one post, that the discovery process of legal proceedings went both ways. If we had to give up sources of information, then I’m sure tsanning would have to do the same as well.

We also stated plainly that as long as tsanning continued; we would continue as well.  This was in emails to the “elder” and not on the public platform of the blog. Mysteriously; in less than a week after this exchange tsanning announced that he/she would be posting her/his last comment. Does this sound like a coincidence to you? You may decide for yourself.

At the end of it all, the comments on the blog degenerated into squabbles around so-called “doctrinal” issues and hearsay. I repeat, NOTHING about the split has been answered coherently. I suppose that an opinion such as mine may not bear that much weight but someone who claims the same beliefs as the two assemblies I can’t seem to get over the lack of transparency.  It’s this lack of transparency that has me asking myself if my brethren have not somewhat been misled by an influence aimed not at their progression but at all our destruction.

I suppose that we can rest on the Scripture that says it is impossible to deceive the Elect and as long as anyone from CBW, LWF or Divine Love Tabernacle is a part of That Body, then they will not be misled by anything or anybody. Let’s pray for one another Brethren and rather than looking to politics or magistrates to solve our conflicts let’s resolve issues as Brothers and Sisters.

At the same time I publish this post, I am going to attempt to contact some of the pastors that were mentioned by the Brothers from the breakaway groups. I’ll use the emails made available on the websites of their various assemblies and invite them to take a look at what has transpired thus far. I suppose it’s only fair to involve them rather than mention their names in vague terms. This will give them an opportunity to speak for themselves if they so wish.

In closing, I’d like to take us all to detach ourselves for a second and examine the promises of the age we are living in. We are expecting a “squeeze” in this hour. We know that this “squeeze” will bring out the true characters that are hidden behind our skins (regardless of colour). The fullness of the revelation of what we contain is not a subject of debate. I’m sure our Brother Ed Byskal can testify to these things. You may find that the more these elements that were feeding this campaign against his ministry tried to apply the pressure; it only produced a stronger character. This is promised to the universal Bride of Jesus Christ. The enemy has already mobilised. Despite the credit that some may give him, he is but a tool in the hand of God, our Father. The whole creation is testifying that the time of the manifestations of the sons of God is here. Everything that was promised is in place and as surprising as it may seem, occurrences like these recent splits may be necessary birth pains to carry us into a new reality.

God bless you all and whatever you decide to do, whatever stance you decide to take, fulfil your purpose to the best of your abilities even if that purpose is the crucifixion of the flesh of Christ’s Bride.

It seems that no matter what you try, you still cannot touch the soul of a Believer. We love you all and may the spiritual maturity allow us to see past our differences and realize that we are the children of the Most High God. Truth be told that when we finally walk around that marriage supper table we surely want to see Bro. Ed and Lance at their respective seats, and the words uttered between them may be: ‘Surely, it was just one big misunderstanding between us. Mercy made a provision that we should be here. Our partial realization became a perfect realization. Who else is here? Brother Tom Rae, Lynda, John Andes, Murphy, Gary White, Rod, Ruth, and our brothers from Africa as well are here.  It surely will be a great morning. However, we will continue to hold each other responsible until we meet around that table and no matter how bitter disagreements may be, we should remember that we are carrying the winning flag in this lost age.

About these ads
This entry was posted in blog, Cloverdale Bibleway, Edward F Byskal, End Time Message and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

40 Responses to Post-Mortem

  1. ShalomShalom says:

    Brother Batsi,

    I had to deal with some appear ant vandalism today, so I don’t have time to deal with your post fully; however, I will make a point or two.

    The Scriptures say you are not supposed to take matters before the unbelievers, and yet this is what a lot of people think you and your blog is doing, so does that mean you are going against the Scriptures?

    Then what you do state, you are only stating your assumptions and refusing to accept the Word that was already spoken to you. Does that mean you do not care about the Word, and nothing said to you will get you to look at this from a Scriptural Point of View in the light of the Message of the Hour? Remember, those who do not love the truth will be sent a strong delusion. We don’t want to be like Balaam and reject the Word because we don’t like the vessel the Word came through. It seems like this you are doing.

  2. Shalom,

    I guess that we made it clear as why this blog was established and we will not harp on this anymore. Which came first? Tsanning or this blog? I just wish Shalom Shalom was not approving Tsanning’s blog and if he could have been vocal as he is here on Tsanning’s mabye we would not have started this blog. This was reactionary response to Tsanning but what amazes me is that when Tsanning regarded our prophet as a cult leader and message believers as the branhamites the likes of Shalom Shalom kept silent. I don’t imply that he/she should have defended Ed Byskal given his attitude but he should have been vocal against Tsanning on the basis of Brother Branham.

    Batsi: it interesting that Shalom Shalom has been given chance to express his views by this blog.

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Bro Madibawitbank,

      You are letting a woman preacher control you and force you to air out things you claim don’t want to be aired in the public view? Your faith is weaker than I first thought. Are you sure you don’t need to contact Bro Ed, to see if he approves of your actions?

      I did post a response on T Sanning’s blog at her request she made to me at Bro Alan’s forum in response to a cult hunter which came on there and claimed we did not believe in the deity of Jesus Christ. You can find it in the comments section of the first article.

      As for getting on there and debating with T Sanning, I felt that I would be causing T Sanning to break the Word of God by giving her the opportunity to usurp authority over the brethren contrary to I Timothy 2:12. I told Bro Fred the same thing on Bro Michaiah’s forum. You gave her this opportunity and now she has that to answer for at the day of judgment as well. She can’t claim ignorance because I told her so in Bro Alan’s forum. She could claim being blinded by false doctrine and therefore couldn’t hear what I was conveying to her, but others could claim that as well. (hint hint)

      As for your assertion that I approved of the blog, that is clearly wrong as indicated by the first response I made to your “blog” on the welcome page. As for me not responding to your claim that she called us branhamites and cult followers, I wasn’t there to read that. I don’t care to go wading through cesspools; you on the other hand seem to enjoy it.

      Would you like for me to post a link to those threads in those forums to you? I don’t mind publicly showing their start pages, but if you want a direct link to the threads, I’d prefer that to be private. However, I currently don’t know how to contact you privately.

      Bro Batsi, I could be much more severe with your opening comments in this thread but I’ll let that pass for now. I see glaring contradictions with what was said on the split page.

      • Madiba says:

        Shalom Shalom,

        We have never sought Ed Byskal’s permission for this and at no point will we engage him, and prefer him to stay out of this one. We took it upon ourselves to confront Tsanning.

        I am not shocked by Tsanning at all now but the ‘so called message believers’ who were happy about what Tsanning did. I think Bro./Sis. Shalom may we please agree to disagree. I spent time trying to understand where you are coming from and I must say that I am struggling still now.

        Maybe just pray for the situation rather than projecting yourself as somebody who understands the qoutes better to the extent of determining the quality of our faith. How do you know it is weak? The quality of our faith is not the issue here! The issue is that we stopped the wrong thing and we are not apologetic, and we needed the people associated with the contents of Tsanning’s blog to come and account.

        I honestly think that you are not being objective, and this lack of objectivity clouds your judgement of knowing the quality of faith. You all over this place busy posting irrelevant comments, and for staters you know that we disagree with Bro. Gary and just thought you would learn something from him in terms of the way he is drafting his responses.

        Please! We reacted to this woman preacher and our faith in God has not been affect in anyway. I fail to understand how then that has to do with our faith being weaker. I BET YOU WILL RATHER STAND WITH A WOMAN PREACHER THAN WITH A BROTHER THAT YOU CONSIDER TO BE IN THE WRONG. ABRAHAM WENT AFTER LOT AND HIS SEED WILL DO THE SAME[I AM NOT IMPLYING THAT YOU ARE ABRAHAM THEN ED BYSKAL IS LOT AS GIVEN YOUR ATTITUDE THIS WILL NOT FIT IN ANY WAY]

      • ShalomShalom says:

        So in other words, you are doing God a service without it being His Will and you don’t care? You have made a vow to go contrary to God’s Word and you refuse to ask your Husband – Jesus Christ. According to Numbers 30, if you make a vow contrary to your Husband’s wishes, He can break that vow. However, you don’t want to let Him know about it because you are not interested in being a submissive wife to Jesus Christ.

        You really shouldn’t deceive yourself. I wasn’t happy with what the other blog did as you insinuate and you had nothing to do with it being shut down. However, you aren’t interested in truth. You are only interested in a smear campaign because you think your denomination has somehow been tarnished.

  3. BroSkosie says:

    Hello everyone,

    What makes people come to church one by one and individually endorse a ministry as a their place of worship. Independently make a decision to be baptized (making this decision alone). Then for many years come to church as individuals. Then when its time to leave then we see the whole thing changing from an individual affair into a mass action? Is it because believers are being mobilized into the idea of leaving? or these believers are of such one mind and heart that they individually loose confidence in a ministry then individually become of an idea that its time for an exodus, then all at once decide to leave?

    I for one go to church as an individual, not as a family or group but alone. From the quotations posted on the previous article it is clear that a believer has a right to worship where he or she fells comfortable to worship, it would be much appreciated if the brothers can bless us with more prescripts from the Word that encourages mobilizing disgruntled church members for an exodus.

    Ta

  4. Madiba says:

    Good Point Skosie! It was just mobilization because loss of confidence does not come by revelation.

    The power of influence normally is employed in mobilizing the people, and egos play a role as well ambtions. When we come to church we come as individuals then why when we leave the church then it becomes a mass action because a pastor suddenly became evil.

    I am glad that they left and now they can fully account for what happens where they worship but what we disapprove is to drag Ed Byskal through the mud to justify the existence of their new assembly. Tough one! We can’t accept that attitude and way of doing things and Shalom Shalom must wake up and smell the coffee.

  5. DustInTheWind says:

    Against my better judgement I will comment. You guys who started this blog are the ones who began tearing at the seams of a new church being started. So far you have only proven that you have a few loose screws. Put it this way… would you stay in a church where there was a cover up of YOUR child being molested? That’s what this entire thing was about to begin with. Would you STAY? Why don’t you guys drop it, leave it alone… it’s YOUR blog that keeps this all alive. Secondly… no one knows who you are… know one cares who you are… you have NOTHING to do with any of the problems… all you do is stir up more! Batsi and Madiba… you are pathetic! Everything that’s said …you guys ARGUE with… put yourselves to bed and forget about it! You guys have knocked anyone who hasn’t agreed with you. You are religious and thats IT! I feel bad for your “followers”! They must be brainwashed following people like yourselves… i notice its only Batsi (who for some reason has been quiet) and Madiba the mouthpiece who can’t seem to shut-up… that keeps this thing going. Why would ANYBODY want YOU Madiba… to come to Canada…. to stand up and say his piece? No one invited you… no one cares…. so far all you guys have done is bounced all over the board from doctrinal split… racism split…blah blah blah….. it boils down to something horrible happened and was covered up and people LEFT! Are you guys THAT dense? You are both overboard. Madiba, whats with the CAPS on the post above… YELLING?? YOUR BLOOD PRESSURE GETTING TO YOU?? People like you are laughable… we have seen religious people like you before… wasn’t it you or was it Batsi who was Jesuit, Catholic and HipHop? WOW!! Talk about all over the place! You have completely made yourselves out to be lunatics! You’ve lied, gone back on your word, fabricated, assumed, accused…. on and on… then you tell Gary to not “name-drop because you don’t appreciate it…. and yet you go and name drop…. at 12:21pm March 1 you tell Gary you don’t like name dropping… yet at 7:47pm March 1 you go and drop names yourself….””””I think Ed Byskal wants to point people to Christ, and his messages are not only directed to the CBW but to the Bride across the globe, and not only him but even other ministers like Donny Reagan, Israel Nkodima, Bro. Diyoka, Ron Spenser, Jeff Jenkins, Harold Beckett, Tim Pruit, Issaih Brooks, Tim Todd, Samuel Dale, Dan Daisley, and many other ministers.”””” Why don’t you let THOSE brothers make that comment themselves… it doesn’t mean ANYTHING at all as you said… and don’t name drop… or put pictures of preachers up… maybe they don’t like it.
    I am glad ShalomShalom knows his stuff… you have both been ignorant to that man… and now you end up typing in CAPS because why?? Because he is saying the truth and yet again you made yourself look like a fool. Blood pressure rising still?
    I don’t know what kind of people would stay with ANY leader after a cover up of a child being molested… even a lot of the catholic people are fed up and not following their leaders anymore due to much of the same thing. Are you still DENSE?? Do ya get it yet?? You guys don’t understand nice sweet language.. I’ve seen different ones try with you both on here… and it only gets worse with you guys… so I’m saying it straight how it is… I’m talking to you with a big stick! Go play in your own playground… leave these people alone at both churches. You disgust me! You spend more time wondering about the politics of the church being started than just worrying about getting your own pathetic lives in line and praying to God you are forgiven for your own sins and iniquities and hopefully make it in the rapture!
    Again… no one cares who you are… no one ever heard of you until this BLOG… you both THINK that you are some sort of spiritual guru’s! I wonder if either of you can be “pastored” or not!? (smirks) You guys totally take the cake!!
    Who cares who goes to who’s church? Does it effect you? People on both sides are still carrying on with their own walk with God…. so who cares where they go? If the Word came out of the jawbone of an ass… wouldn’t that be just as good? You guys are absolute idolizers of man and its as simple as that. You will notice your blog is going to die… comments will eventually stop… except yourselves to each other… which is rather amusing…. you both share the same computer I bet and have to take turns commenting to each other right? You folks out there…. leave this thing alone… these guys are only stirring the pot and getting nowhere… don’t even bother with comments people… and Madiba and Batsi…. I hope ya get the point finally… ask yourself…. “If someone diddled my kid… and it was covered up from me as a parent… would I stay and continue to trust the ministry…. or would I quietly leave?” Ever stop to think that simply a bunch of people thought to themselves if that was their kid… would they stay or go? So a bunch left quietly and just started their own little humble congregation and asked a brother to be the preacher… and that preacher has NEVER once said anything derogatory about ANYBODY… only has said to project love…. yet he has been bashed and beaten… called a hireling and a Balaam…. no point in going on with it…we all know the garbage by now.
    Batsi and Madiba…. take care… you both are definitely pieces of work.

  6. Skosie says:

    DustInTheWind

    Your standard is way too high, you are unparalleled. Talk about ghastly expressions, I don’t think anyone can match that. Any one who wants to try? But I think its very bad to bottle up bad emotions, you must cough it out son, don’t worry you will feel better after some time.

  7. Shalom,

    Is DustInTheWind a christian? Did he just call us ‘piece of work’. This is a very interesting phrase from a man who is so ‘versed on how to handle church affairs’. If I was Shalom Shalom I would certain distance myself from a man who uses such a crude language. I thought he had said his goodbye and declared this blog dead.

    So I guess let me not waste my time responding this…

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Bro Madibawitbank,

      I don’t know who DustInTheWind is, nor do I know who you are. That does not mean either of you are good or bad.

      I now your outloo on things are heavily influenced by your position and therefore can’t look at things objectively from the Scripture. Maybe others have the same issue.

      You have to be able to step back and remove ALL your personal feelings from the situation, and look at how Jesus Christ (the Husband of the Bride) would handle the situation. Until you are willing to do this, the waters will be muddy and an error will look correct to you because you can’t see clearly.

      For example if someone mentions a worldy song and you are just at versed in worldly songs as he is, how does that make you more holy? Maybe the both of you have the same sinful past that you repented of. However, why would either want to brag on the devil for causing you to live that kind of sinful life in the past?

  8. ChildofGod says:

    Oh my dutinthewind!!! Come down it seems like it’s you blood that’s going up, your so mad I mean you really think by you telling people to leave the blog they will listen to you , your attitude is so wronggggg . My goodness , we shall know them by their fruits that’s what Jesus said . Are you a message believer ??? Wich church do you attend??? What are you feeding on??? Even if you disagree with someone there is a right reproach , it’s so not this way. These brothers are obviously not in one accord with each other but not of them is having the attitude that you are displaying on this blog. Please my dear let be Christ alike !!! If Batsima is writing in Caps is his just proving his point verry strongly it doesn’t mean his blood is going high , on the contrary it’s your blood that’s rising. My goodness this is pathetic !!! I don’tean to start an argument with you , was just making my point . Sorry dear , I hope this doesn’t get you going like batsami’s point of views got you all work up.

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Sis CG,

      Your writting style in this post reminds me of the style sis Rita used to write her comments.

      If you want to be perceived as someone different, perhaps consider being a little nicer and being more constructive in your reasoning like you were over on the split thread.

      Bro Madibawitbank,

      It looks like the “k’s” in my last post were missing. I didn’t proofread it before I posted. My keyboard must need to be claened with an air can because the k key is harder to press than the others. So if a word doesn’t look right in that post, see if adding a k to it will make it look better.

      Your fellow minister in the Gospel,
      Bro S.

    • DustInTheWind says:

      Rita learn to spell…or stop drinking and blogging! Unbelievable!

      • brobatsi says:

        Cautionary note to DustInTheWind: Please try to keep your comments from being defamatory.
        I understand that you may feel comfortable expressing yourself without the responsibility of having to look a person in the eye but nevertheless; I’ll have to ask you to refrain from insults such as : 1-“learn to spell…or stop drinking and blogging”. 2-“Hey Lala, did you get into the moonshine with ChildOfGod or Rita”. If you find you are unable to exercise enough self-control then I’d ask you to identify yourself before you are allowed to comment further. You won’t be banned or censored. You will simply be asked to to be the “REAL MAN” you claim you are and furnish the people you wish to insult with your name and contact details before you continue on this forum. It’s quite easy to say many things while hiding behind an assumed identity and a computer screen but if you feel so strongly about the things you wish to express then stop being a coward and come out from behind that skirt. Thank you.
        By the way; please send my regards to our mutual friends.

      • DustInTheWind says:

        Batsi,

        Easy now kitten. No reason to get your knickers in a knot. It was said with a sense of humor and honestly… it appears to me that “Rita” is all over the board with some VERY delirious postings is all. But thats fine. I wasn’t being defamatory whatsoever as “Rita”, “Lala” or “ChildOfGod” is merely a nickname and not directed to an actual persons name. You on the other hand have defamed and tried to bury people into the dirt by using their “real” names. Your intrigue with people saying their real names is rather amusing… do you think anybody would trust YOU after the stunts you have pulled on here knocking people? I am definitely a REAL MAN no worries there Batsi and I am definitely NOT hiding behind ANYONES skirt being a coward, nor do I act like I wear one Batsi. What would be the point of everyone saying who they are? So you could attempt to bury them on your little blog as well? There would not be a problem looking directly into a persons eyes and telling them what I think… you included because I simply think what you have done on here is ludicrous. As far as sending regards to our mutual friends??? I don’t have any mutual friends with YOU… I have no clue what THAT was supposed to mean… another out in left field thought Batsi? You don’t surprise me though as you were the one crying racial injustice and doctrinal splits… so this is just another one to add to your list… defamation of character. Funny… read your old posts and you tell ME who is defaming who!? You really are all over the board aren’t you?

  9. ChildofGod says:

    Am sorry I meant to say madima not batsami

  10. Just Pray says:

    Consider an alternative post-mortem:

    Before church politics got mixed into this there were only 3 characters involved in the tale – a predator, a victim and the predator’s father (a pastor). Instead of bemoaning the downfall of a “world-wide ministry”, let’s spend a moment mourning the ruin of the victim – an innocent boy.

    I had the privilege of knowing the victim during his childhood up until his late teenage years. I can unequivocally state that he was amongst the very finest young boys that one could ever meet. He was respectful, talented, bright, funny and above all, deferential to the Lord. His family poured their love into him and he reciprocated by honoring them by being a stand-out in everything he did – music, sports, scholastics and Godly dedication.

    Looking back now, I can remember the subtle changes in him that began occurring in his early teenage years (the period of time during which I now know that the abuse occurred). In short, he lost his youth much too early. Gone was the youthful exuberance, the motivation to want to fellowship with his peers and the willingness to worship God with his talents. Replacing these was a distant demeanor, aloofness, and a deep-set sadness befitting someone twice his age. All of this belied a secret that only he, the predator and the pastor were aware of. What a responsibility for a boy to shoulder by himself! The very pastor that he respected as a servant of God swore him to secrecy – he wasn’t to even tell his parents!

    So what does this lost lamb do? He honors this promise for over 20 years as the pastor’s ministry supposedly flourishes. Until one day, the Lord says “Enough!” and causes these things to be brought out in the open.

    If any of you were to ask yourselves if you had a measure of his integrity would you not be found wanting? The downside of his integrity? He becomes a recluse – moves away from his friends, family and all of those that loved him (my last personal contact was in his late teenage years). He loses fellowship with the saints – how could he experience true Christian fellowship when he carried the shame of an abuse victim? What a sad outcome to what was a remarkable life.

    Let me ask each of you, before you begin to type your next blog entry, either supporting or condemning the Pastor or the Predator in this story, spend a moment with your head bowed offering a prayer for the Victim. How the precious heavenly Father’s heart must burn for this lost lamb. As I’m writing this I can’t help but weep. I believe that there is a special place in heaven for those precious children who’ve experienced such injustice.

    • @Just Pray: we have answered to you as to how the situation could have been handled, and I guess you point was made without fully appreciating the options we alluded to that the family of the victim had.

      As you say that grandstanding won’t help but to pray everybody who was involved in this saga i.e Ed Byskal, hs family, CBW believer, LWF believers, and the victim anf his family. The analysis of this affair do not get us anywhere, and tapping into emotions is a no no as the situation is undesirable as it is. I hope you understand where I am coming from.

  11. DustInTheWind says:

    Madiba,
    I couldn’t help but say something because the stupidity you and Batsi spew is amazing… that’s why i said “against my better judgement” when I started to leave a post. Yet again you assume things… you tell ShalomShalom to distance himself from me, yet I don’t have a clue who that person is! The only thing that I DO know about that person is any time he leaves a post, it rings TRUE inside and I think he is probably the ONLY one leaving posts that aren’t way out in left field or too gruff like mine.
    My language is not at all crude, it’s straight up and not wrapped up and smeared in the “pat on the back” “brother where art thou” “till we meet again” kind of language that you and Batsi use on people to soften them just before you attack and devour.
    ChildOfGod… I see you are BACK… I think you should have stuck with the name “Rita”… You ask what am I feeding on? I’d like to know what you are drinking!? They have spell check online you know.
    Madiba, I know you and Batsi don’t like me and that’s GREAT as far as I am concerned, say what you want but I’m noticing a lot of “thumbs up” on my posts and a lot of “thumbs down” on yours…. I must be saying SOMETHING right!
    You guys have taken what’s black and white, and turned it gray… (no racial prejudice implied to the black, white or gray people) you only hurt yourselves when you comment, and again, you should clean up your own garbage off your own steps, you bring a whole new meaning to MYSTERY BABYLON… and what I’m getting at is when it comes to YOU guys… it’s totally MYSTERY BABBLE ON!!
    Nothing you fella’s say makes sense. Of course you won’t take the time to respond to my post above Madiba, that does NOT surprise me, the reason you won’t respond is because you got cornered with my SIMPLE question… “What would YOU do if it was YOUR kid who got molested?” See how you totally bypassed that and didn’t respond? Pathetic!! I know what I would do if that was MY son or daughter who got molested, and I know what I would do to the person/people who covered it up too. I’d probably take them on a “hunting trip”! :)
    As far as being “versed on how to handle church affairs”…. first of all, it’s not me who had the “affair” in that context, secondly, everyone has been trying to “handle” this thing but you and Batsi are not just picking at wounds that are trying to heal, you are going to different parts of the “body” and stabbing and doing even MORE damage!!
    This whole thing would have been well into its healing process by now for the people who got horribly hurt with what happened at CBW with the young BOY and the older woman. The family of the young BOY would be healing. The thing is, there was NOTHING done to make it right. Batsi mentioned that he heard Lance preach about staying away from these blogs, you HAD to have THAT service and people went out of their way to get it to you… only for Batsi to say :
    “Unfortunately, all the details of the letters were already in the public domain and personally, I feel that statement amounted to nothing more than damage control. You have the right to your own assessment.”
    Well, seeing as that’s the case… I guess the same can be said with the “apology” from the “older woman” and the pastor of CBW… am I right? It was already too late, people knew, it was nothing more than damage control?? You have the right to make your own assessment.
    Anything anyone has tried to talk to you guys about, you go way off in left field somewhere. Why don’t you answer my previous post about “What would YOU do if it was YOUR kid”? All you are doing here is hurting the family that the young boy came from.
    Sorry if my language doesn’t seem to have a lot of sweetness in it for you guys, but as I said before, I have a hard time with “religious” people who spew out “idiotic” statements that they know NOTHING about. Thats a shame if you can’t handle a straight up, meat n potatoes, bare fisted, knock out… but be smart guys… stay down on the mat, everytime you get up and spew something else…like doctrine, racial issues, who oversaw the new church…references dissected about songtrack titles… yada yada yada… you get knocked out again.. and Madiba… my last post… you just laid down ON the mat and didn’t even reply… get up and REPLY… I’d like to know what YOU would do… same as Batsi. Answer the question.. would you STAY… or… would you GO??
    Finally, yes, I did call you “pieces of work”… I looked back to be sure and that’s the first thing you have been right on with this blog, I did indeed call you that… boy that IS really crude language isn’t it? (laughs) I better change my ways quick for speaking like THAT!! Gimme a break and get your head out of the sand guys… be a man not some stuffed and pressed “suit”! Be REAL instead of trying to be RELIGIOUS… I’d rather be REAL any day than being RELIGIOUS… and I am sure you know the context I am saying RELIGIOUS in… good old straight forward 101% red blooded MAN… with BLISTERS… not some neatly pressed holly hobby Dr Dolittle who just spends time trying to sabotage people from across the seas.
    Maybe I’m just saying it “how it is” for those who can’t… but I feel somebody needs to stand up and stick up for the underdogs from you schoolyard BULLIES…

    Hasta la vista

  12. ChildofGod says:

    Brother madiba these people need to be prayed for that’s all we can do . I mean you have someone with a language like dustinthewind how can you even reply to that , she is so bitter . Well God help us to have a good attitude . That’s all I can say , am out of here!!!!

  13. To DustInTheWind,

    I realize that I have an option in terms answering you or not but I will respond to you just to show you how a level headed person should respond to questions.

    One thing that you really need to appreciate is that we don’t edit or block comments that are not in favour of us, as it used to be a case with Tsanning.

    Responding to your question:

    If it was my son affected in this way, this is what I would have done. I would have scheduled a meeting with my pastor (in this Ed Byskal) in the presence of an objective witness and I would have enquired from him as to why this whole affair was never flashed to me personally by him. I would have assessed his answers as objectively as possible. If he showed remorse I would have forgiven him and continued worshipping at CBW.

    However, if he showed no remorse then I would have gone to him and said this, ” I have worshipped under your ministry for many years and I have grown as a person and appreciate your efforts. However, the answers you have provided in relation to what my son went through are somewhat found lacking in substance. I love you but I feel that my confidence in you has been compromised indeed. I have come to a decision that I must seek another church so that I can continue worshipping and going through a healing process. I am going to worship with Pastor X. I then would have left for Pastor X’s church quetly and I would have continued to pray for Ed Byskal and sought councel with Pastor X to avoid a root of bitterness from developing.

    I would not have allowed a bunch men who had an axe to grind with Ed Byskal to start a church on the basis of what my son went through. I would have taken offence to anyone who made my son’s experience public.

    I hope that I have answered your question, sir. Your language does not bother me at all as I have a very thick skin and blood pressure is 100%.

    Remember us in your prayers.

  14. Pierre says:

    Batsi,

    Je crois que vous n’êtes pas sages à vos actions.

    Frère Didier a quitté l’église Cloverdale parce qu’il n’était pas d’accord avec les actions de Frère Byskal. Il a été l’un des ministres qui ont signé la lettre au Frère Byskal. Il a quitté l’église quand le Frère Byskal n’a pas répondu aux frères qui ont signé la lettre.

    En outre, le Frère Didier a envoyé la lettre à trois pasteurs supérieurs. Les images de ces frères sont sur votre liste des pasteurs respectés. Ils lui ont dit qu’il y avait lieu de signer la lettre.

    Vos commentaires sont faits dans l’ignorance et sans sagesse et vous avez apporté la honte au Message de l’Heure.

    • brobatsi says:

      >>>Comment translated<<<

      Batsi,

      I think that you are not wise to your actions.

      Brother Didier left the Cloverdale church because he was not in agreement with the actions of brother Byskal. He was one of the Ministers who signed the letter to brother Byskal. He left the Church when brother Byskal did not respond to the brothers who signed the letter.

      In addition, brother Didier sent the letter to three senior pastors. The images of these brothers are on your list of respected pastors. They told him that there was [?enough?] reason to sign the letter.

      Your comments are made in ignorance and without wisdom and you brought shame to the Message of the hour.

      [?] brackets added to query correct grammar.

      • lala says:

        Pierre why are you writing in French , it’s an English blog no one can read French here .And don’t talk about things you don’t know about, before you go on posting comments like these ones you better make sure you have enough knowledge on what you’ll post .Didier has always wanted to have his own church , he did not live because Brother Ed did not want to respond to the brothers … The split was just an opportunity for him to have a bigger church , he probably thought he was gonna pastor living word , but when it came to the vote he was not an option .Rod took control and made sure Bro Lence was the only option they had .That’s how he quickly went to seattle to take over the other group . Many things to say but it’s more safe to end it here .Next time you make sure you know what you’re talking about , ok?

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Sis Rita,

        It doesn’t matter if you can read French or not.

        Just highlight the text you want translated, right click with your mouse and choose “translate”.

        Perhaps the brother wanted to privately communicate with the brethren running this page without having it spewed to the public. However, the brethren running this page has no respect for keeping things quite or for following the Scripture.

        And you have no excuse for throwing out nonsense concerning the church stated in Washington years before the indiscretion with the minor was public knowledge. Perhaps you are just trying to minimize the repercussions of the paid staff at CBW splitting that church on purpose.

  15. lala says:

    Lwf why are you guys still blogging i thought your pastor Lence Leroux asked you people to stop it, you listen to him his the Shepperd that is leading you .if you wanna comment be nice like maybe Gary White , not people like wind or dustinthesand whatever that is .You guys should be ashamed of yourselves , you guys were behind this women (tsanning) an unbeliever supporting her with informations and giving her an opportunity say garbage about someone who’s been your pastor for over 30 years. You stayed under his ministry , you were blessed , your children were saved , he cried with you , was sad with you for all this years you thought God walked with him. But just for one mistake he mad , you choose to throw all of these amazing moment you shared with him away , his ministry is now not vindicated , he’s suddenly the pope , you guys are calling him all kind of names… just a question , will you guys now say that all these years before you found out about the Boy issue God did not walk with Ed Byskal ? so all the experiences you thought you had with God through his ministry were fake ?? If his ministry is not vindicated how did you grow spiritually all these years ? You guys need to know the message , please stay under the word than we won’t even have to go over these issues .Brother Branham explains really well on how to deal with adultery in a marriage , it stays between the husband and wife and whoever the other person is and maybe the pastor if the couple don’t know how to deal with it . It’s not the whole church’s affair, it doesn’t concern the whole church.Yes Bro Ed shouldn’t called the Boy’s parent and that’s were he mad a mistake but that’s shouldn’t have brought the split , considering how great of a man of God his been over the years… I can’t believe some of the stuff you guys talked about on tsanning blog, on money and tithes … seriously , don’t you know that the tithes belongs to the pastor? how is he suppose to feed himself if his a full time pastor ? you tell me because i really don’t have the answer to this , do you expect God to come down from Haven and feed him , clothes him?? It’s a shame that message believers don’t even know the ABC’s of the message .
    I hope you know that Bro Lence is not perfect and he will make mistakes at a point , i guess he’ll be preaching to himself since you guys are the perfect church … with a very low understanding of the message .This is not the Ephesian church age , it’s the laodicean church age and we have a message that meets it’s condition, please stay in this message stop pretending to be massage believers …

  16. DustInTheWind says:

    Hey Lala, did you get into the moonshine with ChildOfGod or Rita? Or are you the same person? Please stop drinking…. you make ridiculous posts… and really don’t stand a chance with your comments… do us all a favour and go back to bed… it’s safer when you aren’t awake!
    Madiba, I honestly must say, and hey, I am HONEST and straight up…your last post actually got some respect from me… and I saw maybe a glimmer of a REAL man instead of a RELIGIOUS one… I actually appreciated your response… and you don’t ever have to call me SIR brother….one way or the other….I’m your brother!! I’m just a run of the mill Heinz 57 hoping God will accept me just as I am… in spite of myself… your reply meant something to me… and honestly…. I WILL say a prayer for you and your loved ones… I wish you people no harm… I just wished the chaotic thinking and attacks to stop. May I ask you to pray for me too… I need all the help I can get as well.
    :)

  17. Shalom DustInTheWind,

    I appreciate your kindness and will pray for you too. I guess that we need one aonther, and just thought if Bro. Branham was to comment here he would have said these words, “God hates discord among the brethren. Bro. Ed Byskal is still my brother as much as Bro. Lance is and I love them the same. I blame the devil for this mess not my brothers, and would have wished their members to have acted differently. Pray and love one another'”

    I guess that we really need one another and I will comment less and pray more.

    God bless you my brethren and I love you all.

  18. Grace says:

    This makes me very sad! We are so close to the end it is not a time to be devouring our brothers and sisters. I know that the only thing we should do is pray for one another. The rapture is so close at hand… lets make ready! If you would be prayed up and feeding on the word you would have a much different responce. I think we should each ask ourselves if Jesus would respond like this. I would be very carful saying such things against a man of God. Have you laid your life down for the gospel. Have you given your all! We don’t have to pretend our God has an all seeing eye. Look up your redemption is near. Lets not miss what we are here for…to worship our God. Lay down everything that would beset you and run the race set before you.

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Have you ever studied the life of Eli?

      He was a good man that meant well. Most would even say he gave his whole life for the ministry. We wouldn’t want to say anything against him either, but because of the decisions he made God spoke though a prophet and told him what would happen to his ministry.

      Isn’t this also what the Apostle Paul also saying in I Cor 9:27? If Paul was concerned with this, shouldn’t the rest of us in the lower offices also be concerned with the same about ourselves?

      • Madiba says:

        I guess you need to pray Ed Byskal more, and mabye God can bring him up towards the Word standard.

        Shalom Shalom judging really does not help much but praying for each other will certainly help and I think you desire to meet Ed Byskal on the other side. Don’t Throw The Baby Out With The Bath Water. Ed Byskal has surely done many things that are good.

        I guess since you indetify him with Eli I will be so much interested to know what character you do identify yourself with in the Bible.

        I identify myself with David. A man who committed many mistakes and needed God’s Grace, and you?

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Bro Madiba,

        I’m not interested in conversing about the mule religion of works works works.

        However to answer your question, the Apostle Paul or Jesus Christ because they were false accused and persecuted because others didn’t understand the truth they conveyed.

  19. Gary White says:

    Bro Shalom

    I would like to talk privatly. Garyw68@msn,com

    Thanks GW

  20. DustInTheWind says:

    Now that everyone is done venting… including myself…for what it’s worth… I just want to say Godbless you to everyone… no matter where you are in your walk… or what you believe… or what you have said… I wish you all only the best… that includes Tsanning, Madiba, Batsi, Rita… etc etc… When I see the video footage of the Japan earthquake… and how it makes EVERYONE… rich or poor… of non-effect… it doesn’t matter if you live in a mansion on the hill…. or a boxcar in the valley… when judgement finally strikes this earth… the last thing I will be thinking of is.. he said.. she said… or thinking of someone elses blunders or failures. I know for my own self… I would not want my life played on the big screen for all to see. I will ONLY make it by grace and I will need more than most of you I think. So to those of you that I rubbed the wrong way, I would ask you to forgive me. I have a pitbull nature on the outside at times… but that’s only because I am soft on the inside… and it is a protective thing for myself… yes I have been hurt badly by believers in the past… to the point where I actually wondered if there was a God anymore because of some of the things that were said or done against me.
    But that’s all in the past… those are my demons to get over… the battle is in the mind! I don’t want to be the one casting stones at anybody… I’m busy enough casting stones at my own self and my own downfalls and iniquities.
    I do feel bad for everyone including Bro Ed, CBW and LWF. I know for myself its a one on one walk with God, and at that I fall short all the time sadly enough. When this world finally blows up… you won’t be arguing over a split… or if a new church was sanctioned… or who’s idea it was to start a new church etc… or who stayed and who left… because really…in the big picture… who cares??
    I think we all need a lesson in humility and forgiveness… and I am preaching that to myself… and to look at God ONLY and not a man… or a ministry… or ANYTHING else.
    This has all been a big learning lesson, a lot of folks have an axe to grind still… but I threw mine out finally, it’s just not worth it.
    To those of you who have been thinking or living like you are above others because of your position in church or life… maybe re-evaluate that… we are ALL the same. I think being humble is the key… which is not being religious… it’s simply being humble and knowing how to make things right… by being able to say “I’m sorry, I was wrong, please forgive me… and MEAN it! Words like that would have diffused my own frustration with ministry or people years ago…which eventually turns into bitterness… but sometimes I think people think they are ABOVE having to apologize, and you see the outcome right before your eyes with various recent situations.
    I can’t take anymore of my time with reading or commenting on blogs, or worrying about debating or arguing back and forth with a few of you, I should be spending that time just trying to get close to God somehow.
    “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone” … well… none of us should be casting any stones at anyone an longer.
    As I said… when you see the Japan situation… it really makes a person think… all the squabbling… will it really matter? I think we are very close to the end anyways… and I think with all thats happened in the past year or so, it’s just a trick to get our minds and our eyes off what is really important.
    We should all just let this die now… and just pray for each other no matter if we like each other or not. I wouldn’t condemn any of you to hell so that means obviously I would want to see you make it, no matter if you rub me the wrong way or not, and ya I admit it… a few of you do.
    And for Brother Gary… I noticed you wanted to get ShalomShalom to email you etc… just let it go Brother Gary… it’s not going to help anybody anyways… let it go and find your own way. Also I want you to know, I never did stick up for you Brother Gary, I stuck up for a situation being talked about on here but not you personally… sorry you thought I did.
    Ahhh emery stones from the past.
    I wish you ALL the best and I will not be commenting any further… I promise that Brother Madiba and Brother Batsi. (There, I said it… I said BROTHER) (grins)

    Cheers!

    (Btw Bro Madiba… believe it or not… I did pray for you and your family that very night as I went to bed… something very unlike me to do… but I did keep my word and do as I said I would. ;) )

  21. Madiba says:

    Shalom DustInTheWind

    I am not certain whether you will see this but I must say you have earned my respect indeed.

    Yes your my brother and I am proud to call you.

    God bless you

  22. Timothy says:

    Amen what a fellowship. God bless you all I appreciate your spirits.

  23. Former Congregant says:

    All,

    I am coming to this blog late in the game. I am hoping that you all read this. I am going to relate a situation that occurred to me at an assembly that I won’t mention here. Suffice to say, it will be clear to those that were directly touched by the situation.

    You see, when I was a member of the aforementioned (or unmentioned) assembly, I was told in no uncertain terms not to come back to the assembly. In fact, the Asscoiate Pastor of that assembly spoke over the pulpit to his congregation basically giving them permission to disassociate themselves from me. It was nearly a year of misery for me and others that were involved. Can you imagine being told that you aren’t welcome at an assembly wher eyou are birthed as a believer in the message? It was amazing painful. And I truly resented the ministry, leadership, and those that chose to “disassociate” themselves with me who I would have counted as friends. I even went back to that assembly to attend services. During the service when a deacon recognized me, he sat behind me a through the service. My assumption was that the deacon thought I was going to be disruptive. All I wanted to do was to attend service and enjoy the Word. In fact, the deacon led me after the service to an office to meet with the Associate Pastor that preached against me over the pulpit. The Associate asked me “what has changed” that leads me to believe that I should be permitted to return to the assembly? He then told me not to return to the assembly, ever.

    The point is that this assembly excommunicated me because we had a serious disagreement about an interpretation of doctrine. In that assembly it was the Senior Pastor’s way, or the highway. In the ensuing years, I have gotten SO MUCH closer to Christ. And I had a long time to discover that I really am excited to be a believer. But I HAD to figure it out WITHOUT anybody but Christ (emphasis added for my own edification), I have held my tongue for years after the events that I have described because I didn’t want any issues regarding me to fracture te assembly. So, I have to come learn about this issue between two groups of message believers; one group striking out from the other over disagreements of what might be called doctrine. It certainly is a disagreement about how confrtontatoin within the body, or leadership and their families, is handled. And today I was informed about tihis issue. I listened to a message that was preached in October 2010 that basically gave permission for believers to disassociate themselves from each other. Sound familiar?

    Please stop. For the sake of Christ’s church worldwide, please stop. For the sake of unity in the Message, please stop. I have met Lance LeRoux. I have met Ed Byskal. I have met Tom Rae. I know that these men are dong what they feel is correct in their own revalation. They may have a doctrine that you don’t necessarily believe in, or a style that you would never adopt as your own, but each of them are honorable men. They are strong believers in Christ and the Message. It hurts me deeply to see fractures in the message like this. As someone that has not been associated with a Message Church for years because of my experiences with leadership, I want to shout to everyone reading these words… please stop this.

    I can certainly hope tht we will all be at the table. We will look for one another. And we will be delighted when we see each other on that wonderful day. So, let’s silence this rabble now, and let’s work toward a day when we will see each many more souls brought to Christ.

  24. ShalomShalom says:

    Some just don’t realize the difference in a conflict over doctrinal differences and loosing confidence in a “mentor” for encouraging blatant open sin in the church by keeping known offenders in the leadership positions of the church.

    Just because a “mentor” handled the the situations in the same way doesn’t mean they are the same. Perhaps it only means the “mentor” was trying to protect the same thing and the “mentor” was insecure in his potion so he had to intentionally destroy any threat he saw to it.

    When an underling attacked someone out of pure jealously in the same way, I thought it was out of his own premonition. Now I see that it was just a learned behavior he got from his insecure “mentors.”

    Three different things all handled the same way. If you follow the Word, you take on the spirit of Christ. If you only are following a man, you take on the spirit of your “mentor.”

Please stick to the SUBJECT MATTER when leaving a reply... Thanks!

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s