The Key Lessons of a Church Split

1 Corinthians 11:18 to 19

For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you; and I partly believe it.

For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

The Apostle Paul in a letter to the Believers at Corinth.  He clearly states in his communication that as far as heresies are concerned, they must be present to identify those who are “approved”. The doctrinal differences in Corinth separated people who had been worshipping together for long enough to be called; “the church of God at Corinth”. They were a recognised assembly. They were established enough to have validation from the messenger of their age. Somehow, despite being an assembly and despite living together in the same region and despite the fact that they claimed the same religion, prophet and God; they had “divisions”. These people who no doubt still believe that they had the revelation of the Message of their hour and its messenger, managed to disagree so much that they could not continue worshiping together. This was in the first Church age (see Church ages Book- William Branham) and according to Revelations 2 v6 the problem started with “Nicolaitanes” in that age. The deeds of these people included being respecters of persons rather than respecters of Word that came through the messenger.

The Nicolaitanes deeds were such as to prefer grater honour to wealthy and/or noble brethren than common people by virtue of their wealth and influence. These deeds started in Believers’ assemblies until the Holy Ghost gave way to a political system of Popes, Bishops, Cardinals and “Fathers”. Politics pushed out God’s provided Way.

Let’s look at a “hypothetical” example:

A man approaches a Pastor to discuss an issue that he has held in his heart for years. This man never had the courage to confront it head-on when he first encountered the problem because  of his natural meekness. The man worships under his pastor and as the years go by; the spiritual stability he receives under the ministry reflects in his workplace. He is stable, reliable and always up for promotion due to his consistent behaviour. He grows in strength financially and politically and he is doing well to the natural eye. Spiritually speaking, however, he holds a grudge. A grudge that was not addressed initially and so is given ample opportunity to grow. It grows over the years until one day it outgrows his confidence in his Pastor. The man approaches his pastor but is defeated by the pastor’s superior maturity in the Word (The Grudge acted like a weed and choked out the Seed.) Now, once he feels overly offended by his pastor’s preaching of the Word, he decides to use the tactics that he has developed in the corporate world and makes a play to undermine the assembly that his once beloved pastor is in charge of. He hires a preacher, mobilizes most of the deacon board and they attempt to derail the assembly. They fail.

They also forget to present the issues they have before the Church because as far as they are concerned anything may be deemed as non-Christian. The Bible says otherwise about this however.

They start a ministry but it is not a ministry based on birth. It is based on adoption of a fertile ministry’s children. Given the elements involved such as infertility, uncontrollable elders, ambitious “evangelists”, a pressurised pastor and an impressionable assembly the balance of power is volatile to say the least. The law of reproduction has every living creature bringing forth offspring “after his kind”. This is Spiritual offspring or otherwise. Disobedience will breed disobedience.

It is a strange phenomenon that sometimes we as believers who may come from a point in our lives when we feel helpless and meet a spiritual pastor. That pastor sits with us and prays with us all the way through to a stability that is evident in our lives. We thereafter develop an “attitude” against the same man for some reason and that attitude if not dealt with correctly will lead to a separation based not on the Word but on emotion and heresy.

[129-2 SMYRNAEAN.CHURCH.AGE  -  CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.4

Now I want this on record right here. I am not speaking against elders in the church. No sir. And that elder can be as poor as any man was ever poor, or be the richest man in the world as long as he is an elder in heart and deed. I would not hesitate to ordain any man that has the real Spiritual qualifications as an elder or deacon regardless of his finances or social position. But when you see a social or financial structure come into the church that divides the folks in any way--that is not of God. It is another sign of the time in this physically rich, but Spiritually impoverished Laodicean Age in which we are now living.]

We have decided to remove certain information on this blog as it seems, some elements felt that we were getting too personal. Some may say that the heat only got turned up when someone OTHER than Ed Byskal had their name on the internet for the world to examine their behaviour. I wonder why that is!

Some more irony in this saga is that the initial “blogger” who had all sorts of unprecedented access to sensitive church material has somehow decided to close up shop and has coincidentally STOPPED NAMING NAMES but refers to people in less blatant ways. All this while people are using words like “discovery” and “lawsuit” in their emails. Discovery is a two way process isn’t it?!

For the last bit of irony, the last post by our provocateur is titled as follows:

In regione caecorum rex est luscus

Translated it means: In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Is it a coincidence that Latin is a basic part of any training course in any Jesuit institution? The Society of Jesus loves the language. Not only is it poetic, it is graphic and symbolic and easily interlaced with prophecy.

For example; let’s translate In regione caecorum

This means in the land of the blind. What does prophecy teach about the time we live in?

Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

All we need now is a one eyed man…

ODIN – One eyed Norse God.

Odin was the ruler of the Aesir, a group of “deities” in Norse mythology. Sometimes called Allfather, Odin played a central role in myths about the creation and destruction of the world. He was the god of battle and also of wisdom, magic, and poetry. His name means “fury” or “frenzy,” the quality of fierce inspiration that guided warriors and poets alike. Odin probably originated in the myths of early Germanic peoples, who called him Wo3anaz. The name of the fourth day of the week, Wednesday, comes from Woden’s-day, the god’s Old English name. Odin was married to Frigg, the guardian of marriage.

Among the deities said to have been Odin’s children were Balder and Thor. Odin—the favorite deity of princes, nobles, and warriors—came to be seen as the supreme Norse god, the one to whom the other deities turned for help and advice. He ruled them from his palace Valhalla* in the heavenly realm called Asgard. As the god of war, Odin watched over warriors who fell in battle. Valkyries* carried the fallen ones straight to Valhalla. There Odin feasted them and prepared them for Ragnarok, the final battle in which the gods and the world were doomed to perish.

As Odin is closely connected with a horse called Sleipnir, a spear called Gungir, and transformation/shape shifting into animal shapes, an alternative theory of origin contends that Odin, or at least some of his key characteristics, may have arisen just prior to the sixth century as a nightmarish horse god (Echwaz), later signified by the eight-legged Sleipnir Some support for Odin as a latecomer to the Scandinavian Norse pantheon can be found in the Sagas where, for example, at one time he is thrown out of Asgard by the other gods — a seemingly unlikely tale for a well-established “all father.” Scholars have also linked Odin with the “Death God” and also link Loki and Odin as being one-and-the-same until the early Norse Period.

Who is the king of this evil age?

When examined, the language and wording are an interesting choice are they not? If our “blogger” was a puppet and the elders the “puppet-masters”. My next question on this analysis would be; who is their domination influence? Where’s all that Latin coming from?

From this point on, we’re not necessarily shutting the blog down but will concentrate on issues that are less direct and less confrontational. Unless we discover information about others out there trying to make a public spectacle of our Message and its pastors, we’ll be turning the volume down a bit about certain individuals (whose names and contact details shall not be mentioned)!

[PRIDE_  CAMPBELLSVILLE.KY  SUNDAY_  55-0807A

E-21    So a hypocrite, an impostor, he can go to the world and affiliate with the world, and act like the world, and live in the world, and enjoy the pleasures of the world, and come to church and pretend to be a Christian. But the real Christian can't go out into the world and come back; there's something wrong. So that shows...

Show me your company, I will tell you who you are. Let me go into your house and see what you read, let me listen to--see what kind of music you--you have playing. Let me see what kind of magazines, what kind of literature you read. Let me look in your office and see if it's a big bunch of these vulgar pictures of pin-ups and things. And you tell me you're a Christian, I won't say nothing to you; but in my heart I will watch what kind of fruit you're bearing (See?), 'cause that's your diet.]

SPIRITUAL.AMNESIA_  BIRMINGHAM.AL  SATURDAY_  64-0411

E-42  You’re confessing a Christian and denying the Word. Brings you right back to spiritual amnesia again (See?), don’t know where you stand. You got spiritual amnesia. You can’t identify yourself with the Scriptures. You had to be with the disciples; you had to be with all the Scripture, with the church when it was commissioned. But now when the church was commissioned, “Go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel, these signs shall follow them that believe…” That was her commission. Now. They have… That was the commission, but they have gotten a bad case of this spiritual amnesia, just like Eve got on the–on her round through the garden one day.

Now, she’s like Israel, suffering from this same disease, an allergy from a seminary diet. That’ll give you spiritual amnesia. Get some seminary diet, and you’ll get an allergy. And then the first thing you know you’ll get amnesia real bad. You won’t believe anything the Bible says.

I guess some may have succumbed to a disease called the spiritual amnesia, and hence the undermined the End-Time Ministry by affiliating with a teenager who suffers from a SEMINARY DIET. A seminary diet will make you regard the End-Time prophet as a cult leader and ministers serving under his dispensational ministry as cult leaders. It is very interesting to observe that birds of the same feather flock together, and hence a ‘pastor’ from the splinter group was never identified and in derogatory manner but WILLIAM MARRION BRANHAM was dismissed as cultish, together with his earthly friend Ed Byskal.

To Brother Ed Byskal: Thank God that your ministry was not consumed by the people who suffer from a seminary diet and continue to preach  this Message without fear and know that the ONE who called you is more than faithful. The people at the breakaway group were born into the kingdom of God through your ministry, and we are waiting to see how the other ‘minister’ will pastor them as his results will show whether or not he understands the cost for these people to be stable today and what it means to have SPIRITUAL BIRTH PAINS. We’ll be here with two of our eyes open! In the land of the blind; that makes us more than conquerers and more than the so-called “king”.

Deus tibi benedicas.

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274 Responses to The Key Lessons of a Church Split

  1. Gary White says:

    Dear Bro Batsi

    Thank you for trying to help Bro Ed, his family & the saints at CBW. I feel that you love them & want to also help insure that the message & its reputation is not brought down.
    Bro Branham had a gun explode in his face one time because he took up for the wrong man. Who is the right man to take up for in this case?? JESUS is the man we want to side with. How do we acomplish this? By carefully & prayerfully listening to both sides. That is the best way I know of to help Bro Ed, not to mention those who have been sexualy abused & left to live a life with out hope of recovering.

    I might add that there are other types of abuse that should be dealt with as well.

    Untill you can tell me that you Have spoken with Bro Lance, Tom & Corine Clements, Peter Briner, Wayne Koral & Don Digivea etc. Then we are not the one eyed king but the no eyed king.

    The point you make about a vote before a split can not apply in this case. Probably 75% of the congregation had little or no knowledge of the 10 yr afair that took place or the many other sins & criminal activities that had transpired.

    Why was the congregation ignorant?? Because for about one yr, from behind the sacred desk we were told this info is just all evil gosip, the bros who talked about or listened to any information concerning these sins were led of & influenced by the devil.

    These individuals were & still are labled as Dathans & korahs, fallen angels, Absoloms, Hard harted & unforgiving, self righeteouse Pharisees, Balim & Balik etc etc. I am quoting these staments as they were publicly & weakly preached by the local ministers & ministers from abroad. ie Bro Kalimbi, Bro Dyoka Bro Tim Pruit etc

    To the best of my knowledge these bros have never with an open hart & mind tried to make contact with this group of the damned so called.

    I hope you never find out what it is like to have walk in my shoes, to have a devoted hart to Jesus & his heroes & then have them turn on you like King Saul did to David.

    To be mocked, mis understood, vilified, discredited to be reduced to non stop tears because of the abuse by bros who I would & still would be willing to die for.
    There is more than one way to die & be murdered, it doesnt all ways have to include the lose of physical blood.

    I have many times disagreed with ministry & other bros, but I have tried to do it with respect & love. I am so shocked when I hear of such hatefull, bitter & viscouse curseings spued out because some one doesnt agree. Now lets talk about loving one another & really mean it & practise it.

    I need Gods grace & forgiveness every day, but I think we should be carefull that we dont abuse this frase, its all under the blood, is it????

    Well God bless you & youre efforts to try make peace & restore fellowship.
    Bro Gary White

    • brobatsi says:

      Shalom Brother Gary and thank you for your heartfelt comment.
      I hope my response will match your evident sincerity.
      I’d like to start by stating that I’m not taking up for “the wrong man” per se. The motivation for this blog was in response to a public campaign launched against a pastor, assembly and the Message by still as yet “unknown” individuals.
      We started out attempting to post comments on the other blog but they would all end up being deleted or edited. I was eventually banned from the forum and so began this blog in response.

      The main concerns were as follows:
      -How was the split handled at Cloverdale? Was it Scriptural and if so, why wasn’t the issue taken before the congregation as is required by the Bible?
      -If it wasn’t Scriptural then what was the motivation?
      -How does an anonymous blogger get a copy of correspondence as sensitive as that without having a link to someone inside?
      -If there is a link, what is the purpose and motivation of it?
      -Why did everybody watch silent while their pastor (former or otherwise) and this Message was attacked so ruthlessly?
      I did not once speak to Brother Edward Byskal or the other Brethren you have mentioned but I was compelled to stand up and say something about the issue if in the least to offer an objective viewpoint detached from the strong emotions circulating at the time.

      If you feel that Brothers (local ministers and ministers from abroad) have made no effort to contact your “group”, then maybe you should show them how it’s done. Despite the labellings you say you received why not sit down and reason with the Brothers with the Scriptures as your point of reference and not, dare I say, sentiment alone.
      This may even help us all understand why things turned out this way.

      Nobody is forced to worship under a pastor they do not want but before slandering him and making a public spectacle out of the whole affair, should the matter not have been brought before the whole congregation?

      I’m sorry that you feel you’ve been mocked, vilified and abused along the course of your journey. As long as you stand for the Word that will happen. Which is exactly the reason I say I’m not necessarily backing a man but trying, rather to look at the issue at hand. The issue being that from an objective point of view (which we in South Africa had the privilege of having) despite the many emotional reasons and justifications given for the way the affair was handled, it seemed, to us at least, that there was and is an element of influence behind the process.
      This same element seemed to have steered the Brethren away from the Scriptural way of handling matters and taking the course we saw them take.
      We are all human beings Brother and in need of God’s mercy. Only the Word is infallible and the Word seemed quite clear in defining how to handle such a dispute.
      I would also love to see the restoration of fellowship. My question would be; what do we fellowship around? There is only one thing that can change us and remember that the omission or alteration of even one bit of Scripture renders us vulnerable to deception.
      I have great respect for Brother Lance as one would have for a Minister of his calibre and do not mean any person in that assembly any harm. Our motive was to express a more objective opinion without the emotion that I’m sure a lot of our Brethren went through.

      All we can do for now, as you say, is love one another while really meaning and practicing it. This may sometimes mean pointing out something to a Brother that may be difficult to swallow but will help in the long run. It may also mean coming to the defense of the only Thing that has displayed the power in our lives to pull us out of the conditions we were born in. I hope we have lived up to these motives.

      God bless you my Brother and thank you once again.

      • noname says:

        I’ll be succinct. You ask, basically, why Bother Ed Byskal is being “attacked”. I ask, as a former abuse survivor, why Brother Ed Byskal (or anyone else, related to Lynda or not) did not do the right thing and have Lynda charged with sexual abuse under Canadian laws. That’s all I ask.

  2. When you look on Tsanning blog you can’t help but see a strong bond between InGodWeTrust..All OthersPayCash and Tsanning. It reminds me of a comedy in the olden days called “Like Father Like Son”

    I just wonder what parents teach children these days. I guess the next article will be entitled ‘Post-Mortem’ and we will analyse the comments on Tsanning’s blog. We have put on hold that much anticipated article entitled “A Balance of Probabilities” since Tsanning has decided to close her “TALK SHOP”.

    A word of advice to a bitter ‘teen’ called ‘Anon’. Your bitterness will kill you my son. Just identify where you worship and do just that; WORSHIP. You are too young and too sweet to engage in this battle. Your life is too much precious to be derailed by church politics: so stay away and continue to be just a sweet boy. Thank you.

    • noname says:

      Easy for you to say, sir. Were you ever subjected to this type of sexual abuse as a child? If not, you have no position to comment from…

  3. Gary White says:

    Dear Bro Batsi

    Bro Lance only recently found out about the blog you are refferring to. When he did, he official condemed the site publicly from the pulpit. And rebuked any who may have a hand in the blog.

    I ask you to re read my prior staments concerning why the isues were not brought before the church. Bro Ed would not alow it.. He would of allowed the vote under certain circumstances, & that was as long as the people knew little or none of the details. THE CHURCH cant effectivly vote on any subject unless they know all the details & have spoken to all parties involved.

    Pardone me please for saying this but as I read your thoughts in youre blogg I can 100% say that you have only been listening to CBW, either personaly or from the preaching at CBW or both.

    I have tried to email Bro Tim & others, either I get no response or a response that is filled with anger & viscouseness.
    These responses & attitudes are exactly what the seminary group as you call them had to face in the begining when trying to deal with the sex scandel, as well as the many other sins & criminal activity that was taking place at CBW.

    The Bible says If I offend you, you are to come to me, if I wont hear you, then you are to gossip to a another bro & then the 2 of you are to approach me. If that doesnt work, then we are to gossip to the rest of the church, bring it before the rest of the assymbly.

    This biblical patern cant be followed when the Pastoure is involved in the scandel & will not let all the info be heard by the rest of the church.

    I may add that the ministry were very open to preach about the subject as long as the had control of ever thing, & any thought out side of there own was considered attached to an unclean spirit

    We had a minister caught gambaling, his sins found him out. Fortunatly his sins only hurt himself. But there are other sins ie adultry & pedophilia, these sins can not just be handled by a private confession. We know the way they must be handled.
    Just like the Sunday school teacher who had committed adultry yrs ago. She finally had to have an audience with Bro Branham. When the Holy Ghost forced her to face her sins she imediatly told Bro Branham to shut his mouth & say nothing more about it.
    (sound familiar) No doubt this sis sincerly repented in the PAST. no doubt she became a good teacher, no doubt she was a good & loving wife, but the facts were that the situation was not under the blood untill she publicaly confessed to the proper people. we know the rest of the story. Dont forget that Bro Branham gossioped (so called) to the rest of the world about this situation.
    Bro Bill told the whole world when Billy Paul was runing arround, marying , divorceing, remarying again. When Bro Bill lied & said that he was not in the house, the whole world knew. When sis Medea slamed the door in Bro Bills face every body heard about it. When sis Rebecha was playing boogie woogie music & chewing gum at church he told the whole world,
    I belive this is our example, especialy for bros in leader ship positions. Bro Bill begged any one to come to him if he was doing any thing wrong, that is our example

    Bro Bill was open, honest, transparent. There is no diplomatic emunity available to Gods elect. Be not decieved God is not mocked what so ever a man sows thats what he will reap.

    I belive that if I or a sis was in a high profile position at church, one that had influence over the spiritual direction of the assymbly. Such as a leader of the choiurs & teacher of music & camp counserlers etc, or deacon , TRUSTe etc. If i were to fall in to sin then I should not continue at my post untill I have thouroughly repented, & then go through a time of proving & then allow the church to vote, if they are satisfied with me & then want me back, then fine.

    It is very unfair to not allow an assymbly to be made known of these things, especialy in the case of pedophilia, where other victoms may be taken advantage of.

    Judgement begins first in the house of the Lord. To me I know that it was Gods grace to the Byskal family that these hidden sins were brought to light. It very much proves to me that they are the elect of God. Also Gods grace to the numerouse victoms of these crimes as well.

    Bro Branham says that in a group of belivers when we let down the bars to un belife, it alows satan to get in the air & create a whirl wind. next it brings debates, fusses & arguments. Finaly it brings death. That was exactly where we were at CBW before the split. Sis working, christian rock music, lose life styles, sexy clouthing, UNCHRIST like attitudes, lust for riches, power with out character, programs galore etc etc.
    I & my family did not leave CBW because of Sis Linda or finances. we left because the pulpit was & still is being used as a whiping post. I & my family still have scars from that whiping post that we recieved over our objections to the christian rock muisic & American Idol type performances on the platform.

    The pulpit became hijacked by angry & desperate men who used the pulpit to craft there way out of the scandels, twisting quotes & scripture to excuse them selves & to lable all opposition as devils who were guilty of acuusing the bretheren.

    This cup did not fill up over night, but finally it began to over flow. It very much hurts me to talk about these things, but I am because I hope it sends a message of warning to other churches. Bro Bill saw us getting out of line because we became influenced by the Miss America church going into chaos. 1964

    I still love & pray for the Saints at CBW, I do not wish to put a black mark on them, I hope these words I have spoken will help them as well as the Bride at large.

    God bless you & forgive me if I have hurt you or any one, God knows my hart, Love Bro Gary & family

  4. Good day Gary,

    Although I disagree with you on some of points you have raised I need to commend you in the way you raise issues. You really have respect and humility unlike some characters called in Godwetrust…and IOnceWasThere who comment on the other ‘side’.

    People like you are grossly misrepresented by other characters who worship with you at the Living Word Fellowship and prefer not to mention names. I will leave to Bro. Batsi to ask you for more clarification so that we can understand where you are coming from.

    Keep up with that good spirit!!!

  5. brobatsi says:

    Shalom Bro Gary

    I have read your comment and rather than engage in a long discussion on what my opinion is, I would simply like to ask: If things were to happen your way i.e. in a perfect world, how would you say they should have turned out. I would greatly appreciate it if you could give me a sequence of events from the very first time these acts were discovered up until the time the split occurred. Maybe that would help us all see your point of view.
    I must mention that I am a bit concerned with the doctrine you’re suggesting in saying there are different types of sin. I misunderstand what reference you can use to back that up. I don’t think there’s scripture and even the example of the Sunday School Teacher somehow doesn’t hold water.
    The prophet told her to confess her sin to her husband. When you say the sin must be confessed to the “proper people” whom exactly do you mean?
    Again, if you are using this example to justify the publicity of Ed Byskal’s daughter’s issues then please tell me what the name of the Sunday school teacher was and where the prophet ever mentioned it. He spoke about her as a woman from another church that was friends with someone in the assembly and comes “sparingly” to the meetings. When it comes to the case of Ed Byskal’s daughter, anybody with a computer and internet connection can now find out her full name, the name of her husband and hear express details of what was discussed around her confession. That is not the example the prophet portrayed and we can all examine the quotes below to see for ourselves.

    BELIEVING.GOD_ JEFF.IN V-19 N-7 SUNDAY_ 52-0224
    36 A little later from that, there was a young girl. She’s perhaps setting here this morning. I don’t see her, but she comes sparingly. She’s a member of a church in New Albany, a very prominent church, an outstanding church in New Albany. I’ve been down there. She wants… She’s got a mental condition of kind of a psychoneurosis. And she can’t–she won’t even leave the city or anywhere; she starts screaming and crying, going on. So I–I prayed for her two or three times, but something wouldn’t let me challenge that demon somehow. I don’t know; I just couldn’t do it. She’s a good friend to a nurse that lives in the neighborhood there. They come up there. She’s getting worse. She’s been that way for about eight years.
    And so she come up the other day, and she said… I told her; I said, “Sis, the only thing I know, that there’s a cause there somewhere. I–I don’t know what it is.” I said, “I… If you could come up…”
    She said, “I’ve been prayed for; my pastor…” And said, “My pastor sent me up here, said, ‘Go see Brother Billy and see what he’ll do.’”
    Well now, I said, “I don’t–I don’t know, sis,” I said, “I’m just like your pastor.” I said, “Have you confessed all your sins?”
    “Everything.”
    40 Sunday school teacher, has a great class, doing a good work. But just that hung over her. Well, I–I didn’t know what to do. You just about imagine how I’d feel. I–I just didn’t know what to do. We took her in the room. I said, “All right, come on up.” When people come, we just stopped everything. I got her in a room. I set down and just started talking about genealogies and about the beginning, the origin of time, and everything, and watching her. It was that same morning. God’s always there at the crucial moment, you know. And after while I looked out; there come a vision moving up. I seen an automobile going swiftly.
    I said, “Your conditions had something to do with an automobile.”
    She said, “No, I never was in a wreck.”
    I said, “Just set humble.” Said, “I see you in a car. You almost get hit by a train.”
    She–she jumped, she said, “Oh.”
    And I said, “Yes. You’re not with your husband. You’re with another man. Your husband was overseas in war at that time.” Went ahead and begin to bring it on down. I said, “The things that you done, the immoral things, you told him about some of it, but you didn’t tell him about it all.” And she started screaming, holding her face like that. I said, “You was going to have an operation not long ago too for your tonsils; you was afraid to take anesthetic afraid you’d tell that under the…” She just screamed and fell on the floor.
    She said, “That’s the truth.”
    I said, “How can you ever get anywhere with that hanging?”
    She said, “I asked God to forgive me.”
    I said, “You never sinned against God, you sinned against your husband and vows.” I said, “You go back and make that right, then come. I can control that demon then. See?”
    45 And I said, “By the way, your husband…” I described how he looked; never seen him in my life; I said, “He’s got the same thing to confess to you.” I said, “Now, if you don’t believe it, call him on the phone and tell him to meet you.” She went in and called him on the phone. They met on the road. Here they come back, tears running down their cheeks, forgive one another. The demon left her, and there she was free. See?

    JESUS.CHRIST.THE.SAME.YESTERDAY_ JONESBORO.AR WEDNESDAY_ 53-0506
    E-35 Here sometime ago, a few weeks ago, I was just telling Brother Shepley and them sitting there, of a little lady, they had in New Albany Methodist church. The brother there, we was raised in Kentucky, together. And I was Baptist preacher, and he the Methodist. And so, he said, “Billy, if you’d just come down and have one night, at my little church down there…” He had a place down there, and they had the people stand on the street. Said, “I won’t ask you to pray for a person.”
    And when I started out at the pulpit, he said, “Billy, could–could I take that back?” Said, “I got one of my Sunday school teachers, that’s setting here.” Said, “She’s a mental case.” And said, “I’ve had such an awful time with her.” Said, But said, “She’s a lovely person.” Said, “She’s at the bottom of the steps, just lay hands on her.” I did, prayed for her.
    E-36 A couple weeks after that, I met her again; she was the same shape. One day, the Holy Spirit came into the room; I said to my wife, “He’s here now.”
    She said, “Can I call that woman from New Albany?”
    I said, “Call her up.”
    When she come and set there a little while, I spoke to her a little bit, I begin to notice a little black car, running like that. I said, “I see a little car running. Was you ever in a car accident?”
    She said, “No.”
    I said, “But you was with a light-headed man, and almost train struck it.”
    And she begin to scream at the top of her voice. She’d been going to a psychiatrist for ten years. And there, the Holy Spirit told her of how that when her husband was overseas, she lived untrue to her marriage vow, and all that she had done like that. She said, “Well, Brother Branham, I’ve confessed that to God.”
    E-37 I said, “You never sinner against God; you sinned against your husband. You’ll have to go make that right with him, first.”
    And she said, “Oh, I…”
    I said, “That’s back in the gable end of your soul, and all day.” I said, “They could pour a gallon of oil on you, and kick, and stomp, and cast out devils, as much as they wanted to, it’ll never be able to find the cure, till you find the cause. You’ve got to find the cause first, then you get the cure. What’s wrong? Where’s it at?”
    And she said, “I can’t tell him that.” She said, “I…”
    Said, “Well, you must.” I said, “Doesn’t he work for a Chevrolet company?”
    “Yes.”
    “And there’s a lady works there has a… was wearing a pink dress the other day, he was in a green Chevrolet car. He done the same act that you did.” I said, “Go, get him on the phone out there, and see if that isn’t right.”
    She called her husband, and they confessed to one another, come back up; the evil spirit left the woman; she’s just as perfectly normal as she can be, now. See?
    First thing, you’ve got to find the cause. Then the cure will come.

    QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS_ JEFF.IN COD SUNDAY_ 64-0823E
    I had a woman not long ago up there that had that since the First World War. And she said, “Oh, Brother Branham.” She’d spent hundreds of dollars with psychiatrists and everything. And I was setting there watching her in that room. Meda brought her up there. She was setting there ringing a handkerchief through her hands like that, said, “I feel the world’s going to burst, and I…” all like this.
    I just kept setting there. I said, “Now, there’s something about… You’ve got something in your life somewhere?”
    “No, I’m a Sunday school teacher.”
    I said, “All right.” Set there a little bit and watched. I said, “I see a little green car, and you’re with a blond headed man, and a train almost hits the car.”…?… She said, “Don’t you tell nobody that.”
    I said, “Your husband was in the army at the time.”
    She started crying, jumped up, “Don’t you say that to nobody.” See? That was way down in her subconscious. She said, “I’ve confessed that to God a long ago.”
    I said, “But wait a minute. You never done a wrong against God. You done a wrong against your marriage vow. You’ve got to go back to your husband and make that right first.”
    She said, “He’ll leave me.”
    I said, “God has left you anyhow. So now, which one do you want to leave you?” I said, “Go to him.”
    And she said, “Oh, I–I… He’d do this, and I got two children.”
    I said, “Well, that’s all I can tell you. Psychiatrist never pulled that out of you, but the Holy Spirit has revealed; and I never seen you in my life.”
    She said, “That’s exactly right.” Said, “Well, I–I just can’t tell him.”
    I said, “Well, I… Glad I met you.” Went on in the other room, and she come back in there.
    Meda said, “She wants you in there again.”
    I went there; and I said, “What do you want?”
    And she said, “Brother Branham, I can’t tell that to my husband.”
    And I said, “Your husband’s a black headed man.”
    “Yeah.”
    I said, “He’s got the same thing to confess to you.”
    She said, “Oh, not my husband.”
    I said, “You’d better go get him and come here.” I said, “Do you know a certain woman that wears a pink dress, that works in the office of a certain kind of a automobile company?”
    She said, “Sure.”
    I said, “Don’t they call her a certain name?”
    “Yeah.”
    I said, “Two weeks ago they set under a beech tree with a–setting in a little brown Chevrolet car with license number so-and-so, and was in the same act.”
    She said, “Not my husband.”
    I said, “All right, you go get him and come here.”
    She left. A few minutes, here they come back. He said, “It’s the truth.”
    I said–I said, “You see? Now go tell God.”
    1016-92 But first, when you come to the altar and remember there’s ought, go first and make that right. And as long as this other party here is guilty of not telling his wife… This wife has made herself clear. Now, it’s up to her and her husband. But this other man and his wife has to come clear in it. And you cannot… No matter what you do, it’ll haunt you as long as you live until you wash it clean. There’s only one way to do it: Confess it. If it takes the skin off of you, do it anyhow. Tell the truth, then you’ve got it right. Amen.
    I can hear plenty on the tape saying, “That’s wrong.” But you just try it one time and see if it isn’t. All right.
    —————————————————————————————

    I don’t see any names in there. I see a testimony which showed how a problem was solved by the power of God. The sister confessed to her husband.
    Can anyone tell me what she said to him? Did anybody record the details of their conversation and distribute it to the congregation and over the internet?

    As I mentioned before, if we are unable to separate ourselves from personal feelings and emotions around the Word or if we develop an attitude against the ones God has chosen to preach the Word to us then we may be at risk of taking the wrong things as doctrine. As always, I am open to correction by the Word and if you can answer the questions I’ve posed and back up your theory about sins like adultery and paedophilia being too powerful to be hid under the Blood by private confession then I would much appreciate the teaching.

    Lastly; are you going to lead us to believe that a lay member in an assembly must be made aware of every case of adultery that is confessed to the pastor?

    You wrote – “It is very unfair to not allow an assymbly to be made known of these things, especialy in the case of pedophilia, where other victoms may be taken advantage of.”

    So, in the perfect world we spoke about would you expect a brother/sister to go for an interview with the pastor then after he/she has confessed, the pastor must come out and announce the confession to the church? Does your doctrine only count for adultery and paedophilia or can it also be applied to gambling, fornication, violence, hatred, gossip, envying, heresy, stealing and swearing? Does it also only count for office-bearers or does it count for everybody else as well?

    Where do you, Bro Gary, draw the line? What point of reference do you use in choosing the position of the line and who decides its length?

    These are questions I am quite interested in having answered and look forward to your response.

    Take care my Brother and God bless you.

  6. Gary White says:

    Dear Bro Batsi

    Thank you for the gentel invitation that you are extending to me, I welcome any better Revelation that you may be able share with me. Boy where do I start & finish.
    Please let go to sleep for now & maybe I can respond in beter detail in the near future.

    Before I run out of staem I would to like sugest that untill Bro Ed personaly goes to the the victims mother & apologises (& really mean it) for keeping the crime from her & her family, Then I have my doubts that it is still not under the blood.

    Concerning where I draw the line on the need for the church public to be made aware of certain sins, Is when that Bro or Sis wishes to continue at there former post that they have disgraced.. Please re read my former coments.

    Question, Would you be comfortable with me as a 32yr old man in a counslers position to your 14yr old sons & daghters at a church camp if you knew I had a weakness for sex with under age minors?? How would you feel when much later you find out that your kids were put in a posibly dangerous situation like that?

    A shepered is of litle value with out sheep, & sheep are of litle value with out a shepered, we are all important in the kingdom of God. Hurt not my anointed ones includes all of Gods elect not just the ministers that are Gods love gift to the Bride.
    Bro Bill says that a faithfull house wife will have the same reward as a Godly minister.
    We as lay members should show love & respect for the ministry & the ministry must remember that they are servants to the body.

    I as a husband & head of my wife should be revered by her, but I am also obligated to earn that trust with a Godly life.

    Well good night my dear Bros. Tell the saints at CBW I love them even though this kind of love may coast my my health. Gary W

  7. Madiba says:

    Shalom Brother Gary,
    I appreciate your taking your time to clarify issues that you consider to have been mishandled at the Cloverdale Bibleway Church.

    I guess to make our interaction to be profitable I just need to take you back to the main objective of establishing this blog. We came across Tsanning’s blog sometime in December 2010, and all the articles that had been written about Ed Byskal with intent on vilifying Ed Byskal to the public, and to be blatant it projected him as the worst criminal out there. The articles lacked even an ounce of objectivity and somewhat projected the Cloverdale Bibleway Church members as the most naïve and somewhat gullible people on the face of the earth, and furthermore just the individuals who had no intelligence at all in the eyes of the author. You couldn’t help but to see this as an insult hurled at this people and phrases like ‘drinking cool aid’ and ‘I will make him pay’ dominated Tsanning blog.

    I am not going to go into the merits or demerits of how Ed Byskal handled this matter but what I want to zoom into is the aftermath of this saga. I somewhat found it very disconcerting that the ‘elders’ could hand over the information to an ‘outsider’ to publish sensitive information about another man’s family on the internet, and you would agree with me if I say this move was not in any way geared towards either helping Ed Byskal or the perpetrator but the intent was to destroy Ed Byskal at all costs. When this information was flashed on the internet we couldn’t help but ask ourselves about the motive of the breakaway group (Living Word Fellowship) and the integrity of the elders. Tsanning is not a message believer [irrespective of whether she works from within or not] and she should not have been brought into the equation in terms of transmitting the information to her per se. I agree that she might have obtained the ‘letter’ through dubious means but for the elders to remain silent from August 2010 and allowed her to quote them daily on her blog without expressing their disapproval of her involving them was and still is unacceptable to me. They only started raising their objections with our blog and some went even to the extent of threatening us with lawsuits but when Ed Byskal was on the receiving end they kept their mouths shut.

    I assume that you were once a deacon at Cloverdale Bibleway Church, and therefore you are in a better space to answer the following questions:

    1. When Ed Byskal seemed to be off-the-mark in handling issues, did you raise your dissatisfaction with him? If he brushed you off, did you make a follow up on this by engaging another senior pastor outside Cloverdale Bibleway Church? How far did that pastor, if any, did he get involved? By involvement I mean scheduling a meeting with Ed Byskal, and drilling into this issues.
    2. Do you have an outside witness that can go public and say Living Word Fellowship (LWF) elders tried their level best and forming a ‘new church’ was the only option available for the aggrieved members.
    3. You said the congregation was allegedly in the dark regarding these developments. At what stage did the board decide that it was warranted that a ‘new church’ should be established?
    4. As a former deacon at Cloverdale Bibleway Church, do you want to convince me that, during your tenure, innocent lives were condemned to the life of drugs and rejection? I assume you handled many cases there as a former deacon.
    5. I normally do not stream Cloverdale Bibleway Church’s services but a recently I did to get a sense of the mood of the congregation and couldn’t help that the church is still full. Why did so many people refuse to buy your story of establishing a new church? Could it be that they are deceived or just ignorant? Just asking as an observer here.
    6. Does Living Word Fellowship believe that there is mercy available for Ed Byskal’s daughter? How do we then contextualize this hope for her given that her ‘sins’ have been flagged to the public for their consumption?
    7. I understand that there was an apology given by Ed Byskal on how he handled this matter given that he is a human being therefore not immune to making mistakes. Do members of the Living Word Fellowship Church refuse the quality of the apology? I guess based on the Tsanning blog the problem had to do with how Ed Byskal phrased the apology.
    8. Where is the family of the victim? Have they left with you guys?
    9. Were you in involved in drafting a legal document as to how the church premises would be used after the split?
    10. When was Brother Lance Le Roux earmarked that he would be a pastor? Was it when you still at Cloverdale Bibleway Church or after your departure?
    11. If Ed Byskal goes to the family and really apologizes, would you return to the Cloverdale Bibleway Church?

    I guess the Living Word Fellowship (LWF)‘s establishment is based upon the following:

    1. Ed Byskal’s alleged refusal to apologize to the family of the victim
    2. His alleged money laundering
    3. His alleged disregard for the board.

    Suppose the above is true then, do you want to tell me that should this be rectified then all of you at Living Word Fellowship would return to Cloverdale Bibleway? I doubt! I think other people’s ambitions are well catered at LWF, and hence they would consider the move to be irreversible. However, I need to remind you brother than Brother Lance Le Roux is not an angel and at some point he would do mistakes, and I guess the trend that you have established would mean a ‘new church’ would emerge. You will agree with me brother that is not how a church should be started but a church should be started on the basis of the commission, which is ‘go to all the world and preach the gospel’ not ‘go to all the world and identify mistakes of a pastor and then breakaway from him.’

    I would advise you, based on your love for the Cloverdale Bibleway members, not to give up on Ed Byskal in your prayers. I urge to pray more and one day when all is done and we reach the other side you would be able to say to Ed Byskal, ‘I never ceased to pray for you since I left’. In the eyes of us in the message community, I guess Brother Lance Le Roux would have to do much to convince us that this was not coup by an ambitious minister who subsequently availed himself as a ‘puppet minister’. I am waiting to see how he will navigate around some characters at LWF, and based on that I will assure you that Brother Lance Le Roux will earn our respect in the message community but until then we will be observing.

    Thanks for an open heart Bro. Gary and may God richly bless you.

  8. Gary White says:

    Dear Bro Madiba
    Shalom to you all, I am just a littlle overwhelmed with all the inqiries & questions.
    May I mention that I did take 2 yrs of college in South Texas, I did not graduate, & I had to cheat to get as far as I did (ha). So dont expect to much out of me. I was a sinner at that time.

    I would be scared to death if I was a preacher & visiting your area. Yawll would probably sceeze every drop of life out of me.

    Starting a church!! Well in this case I assume you have listened to Bro Eds oct 3rd service where he mentions these thoughts. I dont think that we can put God in a box on this mater. This is my opinion, I never said God started the church, I hope He did, it seems like He has, but for me we have just tried to make the best out of a bad situation. Under the present circumstanse we could not of continued any longer at CBW. We meet Sun am & tue nights, Bro Lance has been preaching some wonderfull healing & teaching messages. Tuesday we often listen to a tape.

    I hope on the day that I have to give account for my life that this is all the Lord will have against me.

    To me Bro Ed has been a wonderfull servant of the Lord. Some seriouse mistakes were made in the past, And he has to deal with them. My strong feeling is that Bro Ed drew a wrong conclusion when he was first confronted with these isues. He imediatly felt that he & his family & ministry were being attacked by misguided elders that were being influenced by satan. I could easily of drawn that same conclusion if I were in Bro Eds shoes.
    I have worked in the same weld shop for 21yrs, most of thouse yrs I have been attacked by co workers & super visors that are extreamly critical of me. I can truely say that in time the Lord takes care of them one way or another. I have witnessed this time & time again. But one thing I have learned, that if there is a legetimet complaint against me I want to be sensetive to makeing the proper corrections to myself, if I make the right changes & they still want to be critical of me & make life miserable for me then I then realise the are helping me to gain charachter.
    After a while God will take of them once He has had a gut full.

    I have tried to help Bro Ed to just consider for a moment that maybe its the Lord trying to help him & others that have been wronged. Does the medicine that I belive he needs to take taste bad? sure it does but thats what Bro Bill said it will do, it will make you sick to take it, but it will cure you in the end.

    I would like to express that I feel uncorfortable with revealing some of the things that I have spoken about on this blog or what ever it is. I am speaking about private & intamate details conected with the Byskal family & the Koral family etc. I suppose that some times they have to be mentioned. These isues are not happy ones. they are very unpleasent to think on & discuss, but I also realise we have to deal with it the best we can.
    I have full confidence that what ever moves bro Ed needs to take if any, thats what he will do.

    New subject; Why did I /we remain silent on the womans blog?? for me I only thought she was disturbed mainly over womens isues as I belive thats what got her going in the first place. I rarely went on her sight so I was not realy up on what was going on it. Eventually I did see her concern about the scandels at CBW. is she like thouse critics at my work that cant be satisfied or sincerly trying to bring about some necesary preasure. God knows her hart. I will say this, my hat is off to her for having the courage to go after the pope. I supose I would of never of comented on the site because I wouldnt of wanted any body to know I was ever there.

    Again I will say that I dont no who gave this info to this woman or what was there intent, but I do know that Bro Lance has officialy & publickly condemned it & ask that it not continue, if it is any body in our church.

    Bro Batsi… May I be allowed to take a short cut in connection with my thoughts on the perfect world question. rather than go over all the details of how the events unfolded, I would like to sugest that if after the split Bro Ed would of stood before the remaining church & said my dear bros I want to thank you for staying here with me & suporting my family. For thouse of you that have left I unerstand your feelings & would hope in time I may able to win your confindence back. but if you feel that its best you move on then I understand God Bless. I feel that kind of approach would get the Lords attension.

    It is probably a litle unfair for Bro Ed here because he isnt here to answere for himself on some of these subjects. I from the begining was against trying to use the pulpit to settle these isues, I tried to sugest a sort of town hall meeting to adress the isues. the elders tried that on a smaler scale & it failed because of none cooperation by the ministry.

    Restoration between the 2 churches?? I am amazed at what the lord can do. I am also amazed at how the older I get the less I know. Who can know the mind of the Lord His ways are far above our own. I do fell that we should at least be able to be kind one to another & cival & brotherly or last fake untill you really feel it.

    Dont forget that we at LWF are still being likened to all most every kind of evil story in Bible that you can think of. This is coming oficial & publickly behind the pulpit at CBW. Most of these kind of services are taken off the archives so its hard to verify.

    Your are upset at the womans web site for going public, make sure you are just as upset at this public conduit called live streaming at CBW.

    #8 Yes the family is with us.
    #9 No
    #11 I dont know
    #7 When I heard Bro Eds apoligy I tried to give him the benifit of the doubt, as time went by my doubts have grown.
    #10 Bro Lance was out of town when we first broke away. When he came home he agreed to preach. Eventualy we cast our votes like Bro Bill taught & he agreed Pastoure for 1yr.
    #6 absoulutly mercy for her & all

    Well God bless you Bros I know I havent adressed all the questions maybe Bro Ed or Bro Lance could help more than I am capable of. Love Gary W

  9. Madiba says:

    Shalom my precious brother Gary,

    I appreciate your attempt to address our concerns in the most positive manner, and my world we need more people like you. I can see by nature you are not a beneficiary of conflicts and you just wish to do the will of the Lord.

    The only message that I know of that mentioned Living Word Fellowship was the 3rd October 2010, within which certain issues we clarified for the audience and this service was streamed. I am confused when you say you are being whipped on daily basis, and could attribute this to ‘selective listening’ and looking at Cloverdale Bibleway Church through a ‘bubble’. Here below are sermons that we preached at Cloverdale Bibleway Church, and I will appreciate if you can point out a sermon in which you think Living Word Fellowship was attacked.

    11-0213E What Is Their Testimony? Jesus Lives Rae, Tom
    11-0213M The Forgotten Beatitude Rediscovered Byskal, Ed
    11-0209 Winter Camp 2011 Testimonies Rae, Tom
    11-0206M Fulfill Your Scripture Diggs, Kidri
    11-0205E Search For It and Redeem It Diggs, Kidri
    11-0205M A False Conception of Pleasure Diggs, Kidri
    11-0204 The Thin Line Between Mercy and Judgment Diggs, Kidri
    11-0130E From One-Man Ministry to Body Ministry Andes, John
    11-0130M Our Journey To Liberty Rae, Tom
    11-0126 Called For An Eternal Purpose Andes, John
    11-0123E The Crisis Wong, Murphy
    11-0123M Jesus Christ, Our Go Between Rae, Tom
    11-0117 Sister Mary Laycock’s Memorial
    11-0116E Character Impact In Christ’s Bride Andes, John
    11-0116M Shekinah Unending Rae, Tom
    11-0112 The Bread Of His Presence Byskal, Ed
    11-0109E God’s Mighty Wife In 2011 Andes, John
    11-0109M Recognizing The One Amongst Us Byskal, Ed
    11-0102M Access To God’s Grace Rae, Tom
    10-1226M A Gift Poured Out Byskal, Ed
    10-1219E I Shall Glory In The Cross Rae, Tom
    10-1219M The Great Migration Byskal, Ed
    10-1215 God’s Wrapped Gift In Bethlehem Today Andes, John
    10-1212E Bring The Meal Rae, Tom
    10-1212M Applying Leadership Pt-3 Byskal, Ed
    10-1208 The Family: Pre-Millennium Cleansing Pt-2 Andes, John
    10-1205E The Lord Turned The Curse Into A Blessing Wong, Murphy
    10-1205M Leading And Following Byskal, Ed
    10-1201 Power To Pursue Rae, Tom
    10-1128E The Lord Our Righteousness Rae, Tom
    10-1128M Doing The Will Of God Byskal, Ed
    10-1124 The Family: Pre-Millennium Cleansing Andes, John
    10-1121E The Man Within The Man Within The Man Pt-4 Dodd, Tim
    10-1121M The Man Within The Man Within The Man Pt-3 Dodds, Tim
    10-1120 The Man Within The Man Within The Man Pt-2 Dodd, Tim
    10-1119 The Man Within The Man Within The Man Pt-1 Dodd, Tim
    10-1114E He Is Hungry Wong, Murphy
    10-1114M He Does All Things Well Rae, Tom
    10-1107E Overcoming Complexes In The Family Andes, John
    10-1107M I Know My Redeemer Lives Pt-2 Rae,Tom
    10-1103 The First Five Minutes In Heaven Andes, John
    10-1031E Signs of the Times Ivanenko, Peter
    10-1031M You Are The Tabernacle Byskal, Ed
    10-1024E The Family; Under This Third Pull Andes, John
    10-1024M Two Sides Of The Veil Byskal, Ed
    10-1020 Saved By God’s Grace Andes, Ken
    10-1017E Haiti Report Petit, André
    10-1017M My Redeemer Lives Rae, Tom
    10-1013 Cultivating Spiritual Desires Andes, John
    10-1010E Staying In Our Position Andes, John

    Let us look at our Prophet said regarding Ed Byskal’s life but yet being cognizant that he is just like any other pastor serving under the Message banner.

    62-0407 THE.SIGNS.OF.HIS.COMING_ CLEVELAND.TN SATURDAY_
    E-6 And I felt so SORRY for Eddie, and his children that way too, and little Eddie Byskal and his wife, lovely woman out of a nice lovely home.

    I just wonder if this was prophetic when Bro. Bill said that I FEEL SORRY FOR EDDIE AND HIS CHILDREN, and I guess not just what they went through but what they are going through now.

    63-0118 SPIRIT.OF.TRUTH_ PHOENIX.AZ FRIDAY_
    114 He’s Brother Eddie Byskal, which is the head of the–the ministerial association of that northwestern country up in there, a very fine boy, may be here in this meeting. He’s planning on coming this a way this time. Fine little boy, and he’s got a NICE FAMILY.

    I bet the Devil hates that Malachi 4 said that Ed Byskal has a nice family, and hence his daughter might having caught into this indiscretion but the genuine believers will pray for Bro. Ed’s family and the victim’s family but being cognizant that the DEVIL HATES ED BYSKAL’s family but the prophet messenger loved it.

    Let us see what was the Prophet’s desire below:

    65-1205 THINGS.THAT.ARE.TO.BE_ RIALTO.CA V-4 N-6 SUNDAY_
    14 As I’m beginning to get old, and know that my days are numbered, and know now that these young men can take this Message and sweep It on to the Coming of the Lord, if He doesn’t come in my generation. Which, I’m hoping to see Him.

    When this statement was made I guess Ed Byskal was only 27 or 28 yrs old but I believe that he is one of the young men that the prophet said they would take this Message and sweep It on to the coming of the Lord. If you are doubting Thomas then look at his sacrifice in China, Phillipines, Brazil, Congo, India, Russia, South Africa and many more. Ed Byskal’s work speaks for itself. I think God is preserving men like him for a reason.

    Please, watch this service [11-0209 Winter Camp 2011 Testimonies] and tell me that the young people who are testifying here are in danger at Cloverdale Bibleway, and how do we explain the way they articulate their stand for this Message of the hour among their school friends and neighbors. What makes these young ones to express such stability in this unstable world? Isn’t the ministry of Ed Byskal doing that? Brother Gary have a look at this service then make me understand why people would want to project Ed Byskal like a criminal. Maybe I am just naive! However, in my naivety I surely no that there no power that can bring a sense of balance in young people’s lives except the power of the Almighty God. If that is the case, then the power of God is working at Cloverdale Bibleway.

    I really love Brother Lance Le Roux and he preached a Message once entitled ‘Accountability’, and this brother surely is a fine minister. However, I so wish to see what moves will he make to prove that the ‘righteous shall die for the unrighteous’. In the context of this case ‘How Living Word Fellowship will die for Cloverdale Bibleway Church’. I am glad that Ed Byskal’s was so mature not to delist the sermons of Lance Le Roux on the Bibleway website and that is what I call maturity.

    I hope one day God will bring a genuine reconciliation and ‘all things worketh for good to them that love the Lord’. Something is really happening int the background and only God knows what it is.

  10. Gary White says:

    Dear Bro Madiba

    I am glad to hear of positive things hapening at CBW. How ever as I stated before most of the sermons that are preached when they are going after us are taken off the web site. ie Bro Kiumbis, Bro Dyoka preached at CBW camp. Bro Eds Meesage on Bro Harry Mcneil, which Bro Ed appologised for. Tim Pruits message a few camps ago.

    Only lately has Bro Ed began to mention specific names, but in past & before the split many of the messages were taking direct aim at the elders. Even in Bro Eds appologys he quotes Bro bills warning stateing satan will bring in somebody maybe a deacon (Kiumbe) & pump him full of poisen & he will become a critic in the church etc.

    One of my daughters was there about 6mos ago after communion it was said latter behind the pulpit that our young people come to Cbw boldly & disrupt the service, I & Bro Lance made contact with defirent Bro & sis at CBW who had visited with my daughter to confirm what kind of trouble she may have caused, There was none.

    I then tried to make contact with the Bro so that I might apologise for any problems she may have caused, no reply, no apology no nothing. This same preacher had a 150 of our young people present at his youth metting just before the split he informed them that there parents were a bunch of Dathans & Korahs.
    This meeting was brought up before the Sr preachers at CBW & there reply was that we are to sensitve..

    I could go on & on. I am glad to say that if Bro Lance ever tried any thing like that at LWF most of us would probably walk out. You can be sure that he could never sink that low. You have to have been here & know all the facts to be able to recognise the agendas that are spoken at the pulpit. The messages sound great untill you are informed of all the details & then realise what is realy going on. Thats why I stated earlier that the pulpit should have not been used to handle these isues. I felt it would of been beter to have some sort of town hall metting.

    I heard so many sermons at CBW about the grumbling elders (critics) that came out of Egypt with Moses & how they were left to rot in the wilderness. I finally complained & said can we go on to another message I am rotten now & all that remains of me is dust. (ha)

    Many exelent Belivers & familys where forced to flee from this kind of abuse. These Saints who I guess are now Moabites were not complaners & critics. I say Moabites since there King is Balik & our prophet is Balim.(Lance).

    In Bro Eds message he declares that he personaly birthed 98% of us that left into the kingdom. Please explain to me how he birthed us into the Kingdom but now we are headed for destruction. As Bro Kiumbee put it we are fallen angels. Bro Ed gave his full sanction to his message saying it was of God.

    Now maybe you will begin to understand why some people have gone public with this outrage. It is to shake them from there indefirence to Christ Body. What will hapen when one day our husband (Jesus) comes back for us & finds His wife with a black eye & broken nose??

    Thanks & God Bless

  11. Shalom Brother Gary,

    I somewhat feel that you are really not answering my questions, and seems whenever I need clarity on some issues the more you engage in a blame game.

    I need you to be factual and leave emotions out of this so that we can help each other. I need specifics here and not more of I heard\thought\perceived\felt.

    Are your young sometime go to Cloverdale? I spoke to you about trending wrong, and just mentioned that should Lance Le Roux take a stand on something you feel strongly about then you will walk out. What happened to waiting in prayer and making an intercession for the less righteous and those who lack revelation that you have received. There is a saying that goes like this, “a rolling stone gathers no moss”. If you walked out on Ed Byskal then surely it will surprise me should you decide to walk out on Lance. Ed Byskal’s ‘sins’ are so many as I initially thought the bone of contention was the ‘mishandling of his daughter’s case and money laundering’ but now everytime we attempt to drill into them then you change. Do you know in the court of law is not allowed that a prosecutor can change the charge sheet during the trial. You have put Ed Byskal in Court of Public opinion and daily you guys are changing the orginal charge sheet. You alleged that young people are not save and when I ask you about last Wednesday’s young people’s testimonies then you move onto something else.

    You said that pulpit is used as a bashing table at CBW but when I list servies for you show those sermons then you bring a new blame. Pastor Diyoka preached on the ‘new song” and I fail to understand how is that a bashing session.

    Blame Game is cancerous indeed!!!

  12. Gary White says:

    Dear Bro Madi
    I apologise for not answereing all your questions. I did admit to that earlier.

    I work 40 hrs a week, go to church, raise 4 kids, & only have dial up internet, plus your preety smart. There are other questions that I am trying to adressas as well.

    I dont have the time or capobilities to veiw all those services you mentioned. As I said the services that are heavily slanted against us are not available on the internet anymore, how surprising. How ever I will try to go by memory.

    For about 3 yrs up to the split, a sr minister at CBW told the congregation to GET OUT if they dont like it here. I dont want to exagerate like I may have when I said daily bashing, This minister repeated this stament probably 25 times. Consistant bashing may be a better choice of words. Thanks for the correction. Now how can the Holy Ghost tell us to get out & then the same Holy Ghost tell us that if we dont come back we are doomed?? Fear & intimadation became a comon thing At CBW as it still is presently.

    Do you have the same burning desire to investegate Bro Eds stament about Bro Tony Abma & his wife sis Rebecha being seminary belivers?? Are you ready to hound bro Ed for evidence to back up his claims. Bro Branham would call this mudering Bro Tonys influence.

    In the Oct 3rd message that you call a clarification service, do you recall Bro Ed turning to Bro Tom Ray & saying that we are going to have to fix this service up when I am done??? I tell you again that there are many services that they have had to FIX UP. I think we are mispelling the word clarification, it should be spelled DESECRATION. Desecration of the pulpit I feel is a more accuret dicreption.

    Bro Branham had a church split, he rebuked his people when they called the break away group dead birds, buzzard roust etc.

    Bro Branham mentioned Bro Demas by name ONE time from the pulpit & he publickly appologised for it. Thank the Lord for that kind of example.

    In the message intitled Stewardship part 3 Sun Am March 1st 2009 I belive in this service as well as others Bro Ed tells the story of the woman of ill fame that was draged before Jesus. She was draged by the the self righteouse farisees (our deacons) that you couldnt put a finger on there lives. He went on to say they ment it for her (LINDA) harm
    but God was going to bring good out of it.

    This is one of the first times I ever heard of a pastoure rebuking people for being to righteouse.

    In Bro Eds first attempt to apologise Sun Am June 21 2009, he quotes about Bro
    Branhams warning The enemy will come And the one the devil is using (deacon) will either get out or come in and be one of you, He says he has no one in mind when he is quoting this. Bro Ed makes many other refernce to these same quotes in other services as well. In a number of sevices he says the Bible says you cant be forgiven if you dont forgive others your self. This thing was never about not forgiving Sis Linda.

    Did you hear the service before the split where Bro Ed informed the church that the police bro that turned in the sexual abuse case to the law, was a repeated adultrier, & how his wife came to him (Bro Ed) sobing in his office. My daughter was siting next to the police officers daughter when she burst in to tears & ran out of the service. You didnt see that service? Strange. Bro Ed did apologise but failed to mention that the sins toke place long ago & that he (the policeman) had made things right according to the teachings of Bro Branham.long ago as well. Now we have witnessed things truelly be being brought out from under the BLOOD.

    You have provoked me to say things I dont want to. But I could definently go on.

    Bro Ed is truly Gods servant. PLEASE listen carefully to my closing thoughts.

    About 4yrs ago Bro Ed quoted bro Branham saying that when the congregation gets to putting to much faith in the pastoure God will permit him to make a mistake so that people would stop it.

    Lets relaxe a little & allow Bro Ed to be lowerd just a little in our eyes.

    If there ever was a man that was worthy of our estaem,love & respect it is Bro ED BYSKAL. How much of what Bro Ed is going through is my fault, Our fault???? YOUR FAULT.

    What kind of man is he? He is hansom, smart, wise, full of compassion,sucesfull in every way, blessed & vindicated of the LORD. He has raised a woderfull family. Sis Linda despite her faults has played the piano tiresly for years while Bro Ed would be pleading for souls to came forward. Bro Ed was Bro Branham friend and brought comfort to him.
    Sis Jo ann Ray like wise. Sis Marilyn Chebernoof, you couldnt find a kinder soul.

    I have always been amased that for so long, Bro Ed could maintain his balance & maintain his Christ like character under these kind of popular circumstances. Sis Ruth Byskal is the exaple of examples of a Godly wife. I could go on & on.

    With all these facts in mind it easy to see how we could exalt him above measure. We Slowly begine to take his word over Gods Word. Not to say he ment to do anything wrong nor we, but as humans we just with time begen to slide that way, & its allways been that way.

    King David, saw Bershiba,I assume she didnt bath alone. David inquired who she was, He sent a messenger to fetch her. I assume she had servants & others who lived with her, they answered the door. She comes up missing from time to time, sleeping with David. A plot was hatched to cover up things, it fails. A meesege is sent to the leader of the army, the leader informs Uriahs men to pull back so Uriah can be killed. Heres my point how many belivers knew of what was going on? I cant know for sure but I would say a lot , a lot of Belivers were on board with things that were clearly off the WORD of there LORD. No doubt they had stoped listening to the tapes because after all David had 50 yrs of succesfull ministry. Not to mention that he was a man after Gods own hart.

    Futhermore David was so trusted by the people that they knew they need not consult the prophet (TAPES) concerning the great rival that David was engenireing. The church had many excelent reasons why they could blindly or lazily obey Gods anointed king. Result, a dead Brother. Now we have a widow, fatherless children, & sadness.

    America has had a Godly past history. Bro Branham says the Americans are trying to live off there past reputation. No mater how wonderfull a past that we have had that does not excuse us of our present day responsibilty to do the right things. Same goes for Bro Ed, me or any one.

    A final word to all my preciouse bros & sis. DONT make the same mistakes that we have. Mistakes that Bro Branham clearly warns us of. He saw us getting out of line in the end. We are at the end. He said we got out of line because we were influenced by the Miss America church that wownd up in caos. I belive it so important for the pulpits to not become weak. Stay simple, be honest. Transparent. I belive a lot of the trouble that we have gone through could have been avoided if the sis would had been taught to stay at HOME & love your husbands. Men stop wearing purple & pink clouthuing Bro Branham says its an indication that your being feminized. I dont see how a church can fail if they stay with the Godly hymns that bro Branham comanded us to sing. Preach it gun barrel straight, no politics at all, no respector of persons ever. No christian rock songs at all, ever. They open the doors to ecuminical spirits, luke warmness, BEATNECK attitudes.. We are so big into young peoples camps, youth night meetings, youth pastoures. I think its time for old peoples camps & meetings. time for the groan ups to get saved.

    Bro Branham says that he is a critic, & that things that are wrong ought to be criticized. He says he loves a good critique. The ministry are not to be lords over the flocks but examples. The sheep should love there pastoures, but the Word must always remain our ultimate standerd. I belive that our husband is a jelouse husband He doesnt like seeing me be overly enamoured by any other man but HIMSELF. Shame on me if I have ever been guilty of that. We know that John the Baptist had to decrease so that HE could increaase.. WE know that bro Branham could not be here & Jesus at the same time. Posibly the same with Bro Ed or any other outstanding servant of the Lord. We to easily get caught up with the charisma & personality of our dynamic preachers, dont get me wrong I love it but lets go wild over our savior & his Word.

    Pray for us at Living Word many of us are still trying to recover from these unfortunate events that we have had to endure. Same with the folks CBW. When know that in the in the end the devil is going to get all the blame for these necessary hart aches.

    God richly bless & keep you all till we meet in the air. Bro Gary White

  13. Gary White says:

    Dear Mouse

    Please come to the church again & let me know what I can do to make things right. I have to say that I am in the dark concerning your complaints.

    God Bless Gary W

  14. Madiba says:

    Shalom Brother Gary,

    I went to listen to the sermon entitled ‘Stewardship Part 3′, and my brother the ‘amens’ and ‘hallelujahs’ being hollered as Bro. Ed delivered that sermon are certainly deafening especially when he comes to the part when he speaks about Grace. I just wonder if you were not one of the people who were saying amen.

    I guess if you now refer me back to that sermon I just wonder if you were not guilty of one of the barriers of communication called ‘Selective Listening’. Herewith is a defination of this ‘barrier’; SELECTIVE LISTENING: This is when a person hears another but selects to not hear what is being said by choice or desire to hear some other message. This can take several forms and result in acting out in destructive ways. An example is to become passive aggressive by pretending to hear and agree to what was said when actually your intent is to NOT act on the message, but make the other person think you will. Another form is to act on what you wanted to hear instead of what was said. Continued selective listening is one of the best ways to destroy a relationship.

    There is what we call the misapplication of the art of contextualization, and I think this the case in relation to the sermons that you have mentioned. Herewith is the defination of contextualization; it is the process of assigning meaning, either linguistic or as a means of interpreting the environment within which an expression or action is executed.

    I just wonder how the below-mentioned qoute was contextualized by the Branham Tabernacle board but the prophet was direct and did not mince his words. I am of the view that the board at the Cloverdale Bibleway thought they could command more authority than their pastor but when he exerted his spiritual authority then they decided to call it a day.

    57-0922E HEBREWS.CHAPTER.SEVEN.2_ JEFFERSONVILLE.IN HEB SUNDAY_
    276 By the way, while I’m speaking; somebody, in around this country somewhere, is guilty of writing some cards, to move Brother Neville out of this pulpit. You’re going to have to settle that with me. Uh-huh. That’s right. Uh-huh. Yes, indeed. Now, I want you… Said the dea-… something about the deacon board. The deacon board has not one thing to do with that pastor. No, sir. The congregation, in full, has all the authority. It isn’t… A deacon board is just the policemen here in this church, just to keep order and so forth. But when it comes to rules, the whole church has to say so. This church is built upon the sovereignty of the local church. Therefore, I have nothing to say in moving this pastor, or putting one in. I own the property; it’s given to the church. You all are the church. You people are the one who control. You’re the church, yourself. And the Church, the holy Church of God is the sovereignty, of the Holy Spirit in that Church. And the only thing I do is own the property, give it over to this church, as give it over for a church, and it’s tax free. And the church elects their own pastors. I have nothing to do with it. And the only way this pastor could ever leave, would be the pastor decide himself to go, or the majority of the votes of the church would have to say, “Change the pastor.” That’s the only way. No deacon board can do it. The deacon board only keeps order and things in the church.
    277 The trustees, they have nothing to do with it, only repair the church. And they can’t do it until there’s a… The whole trustee board meets and says, “We’ll build this, or we’ll do that.” Then they have to ask the treasurer if they got the money to do it. Yes, sir.

    I am baffled that you wanted to call a ‘town hall meeting’ and this is certainly not spiritual but political. I am inclined to believe that you, at Living Word Church, orchetrated a political move. I need to ask this question once more; Do you have a pastor who did oversee your walk out of the CBW? What was that pastor’s involvement? Can that pastor give witness that he tried to reconcile you with Ed Byskal and that he failed?

    Lance Le Roux must know that should he exert his spiritual leadership then either you will attempt to organize a ‘town hall meeting’ or ‘walk out. I guess based on your testimony that Ed Byskal apologised regarding the policeman issue then it shows that he does not regard himself as God but as a servant of God who is not immune to making mistakes.

    There few things I really find disconcerting regarding they way the Living Word Fellowship:

    1. Writing a letter [I have never had of this in my entire life [18 years] in this message] I just wonder if in Brother Branham’s language you were guilty of ‘writing cards’ and this time not to remove Brother Neville but now is Brother Ed Byskal. Now I understand that indeed spirits don’t die.
    2. Proposed town hall meeting [This is unheard of in this message and it is not in line of this message. In politics we settle our issues at church in a scriptural manner but in politics we look for a town hall and write a referundum [letter], and elect a polical head.
    3. Legal document regarding the utilization of the building [You engaged the attorneys without the knowledge of Ed Byskal, and I need to say if this was a spiritual matter then it was wrong to initiate a legal process.

    I was watching this service by Ed Byskal 'the forgotten beautitudes' and couldn't help but asked myself as to where did you [Living Word Felloship] use to sit when you were at CBW and it looks like the church is still full to the rafters.

    I appreciate your time Bro Gary but quote Ed Byskal in the message he preached entitled ‘Stewardship 3′: ‘We are in this Message by Grace’ Let us shout Grace, Grace, Grace, Grace. No matter how many times we shout this it will never be enough’. I say going to heaven does not matter as to which message church you are in by all it takes it is really the Grace of God but we need to make sure that assemblies in which we worship must be scripturally founded.

    Regards,

  15. Gary White says:

    Dear Bro Madiba

    You hear the congregation shout, (not me) because as I said earlier 75% of the church knew little or nothing about the issues. One family that I was particularly close to, was probably amening the loudest. He later hears all the facts of the motivation behind the message, & all the details of the many sins that were sexual in nature, that were being covered up. He has now moved away. Like I said these messages of grace (so called) sounds great until you can know all facts concerning them.

    Bro Nevils situation can not be compared, to the best of my knowledge he & his family MEMBERS were not involved with any mis deads. Just as I feel the Bible story bro Ed uses on Oct 3rd is in correct & not accurate. As Balik was showing Balim all the back sides of Israel they never once stopped & gazed at Moses & his family, why? because they were held to a higher standard, as I believe the rest of the Bros & Sis that are in positions of influence at church should be held to. You have a right to wonder but your wondering is incorrect.

    Thank you for quoting that the church is built on the sovereignty of the local church, he goes on to say that the WHOLE church has the say. Bro Ed refused to let the whole church no anything, why? because as I said earlier he felt the whole mater was under the blood & that it would be a sin to talk about it. Again I say under the blood becomes a convenient excuse for no ACCOUNTABILITY.

    Writing a letter; Bro Ed said he wanted something in witting, thus the 22 page document was written expressing the many concerns of the elders. Bro Ed had a chance to respond, he didn’t, accept for some parts dealing with the finacial allegations.

    His only response was that God told him to handle the situation in a corporate manner???

    Town hall meeting; Bro Bran ham said we fight in the back yard (town hall meeting) but in the front yard (pulpit) we are friendly. I believe that the sacred desk is not the right place to argue out your point, especially when the other side is not allowed a voice. Especially the voice of the victims that should be allowed to be heard.

    I strongly feel that all the members of a church must be held accountable for there actions. ESPECIALY those that are in leadership positions..

    IT BECOMES VERY CONVINIENT TO SAY GRACE, GRACE & use that to not answer any questions. I believe the ministers prayed upon the fact that we believed that what ever comes over the pulpit must be thus saith the Lord. Now we have lost confidence in the pulpit. Thats one of the errors, results of trying to use the pulpit to argue out your points.

    I believe if there are serious accusations leveled at the pastor, then he is no longer qualified to remain in a position of decision making on the subject until the matters can be cleared by a team of INDEPENDET investigators, (or church) Even if the pastor is completely innocent.. To me that is just common sense.

    I was at CBW for 26 yrs, I know of no one who wanted to over through Bro Ed, as a deacon, there probably was very little that could be hid from me, from the Holy Ghost.

    I hope CBW is full, I don’t go there any more so I really am not to interested, What little I do follow with them is because they just cant seem to leave us alone. WE WERE SHOT AT WHEN WE WERE THERE & ARE STILL SHOT AT NOW THAT WE ARE GONE.

    Final thought, King Saul just could not bear the thought of losing his kingdom, his position, thus he began to act in a very strange way. Bro Bran ham was planing on quiting & moving to B.C. He got a complex. We know Moses got in to trouble at the rock. Why?? One reason I believe is because these servants (Bro Ed) needed to be reminded ITS NOT YOUR MINISTRY, ITS NOT YOUR CHURCH, ITS NOT YOUR SHEEP it is the LORD JESUS MINISTRY & CHURCH & SHEEP amen.

    When Bro Bran ham was about to throw in the towel because sis Hope & his daughter had died, he said wait a minute whos wife is she? where did I get that daughter from any way. He said the Lord Gives & the Lord takes away. Now I believe thats the right revelation,

    My hat is off to you dear ministering bretheren, I would not want to trade places with you for all the tea in China. I understand the pressures & difficulties of shepherding a flock.. You have got to deal with us critiques, legalist, sinners, saints, the young, the old etc.

    But just remember you may have sweated blood & tears, & made GREAT sacrifices for the Lord & the sheep but THERE NOT YOURS, they are given to you because they need you & the Lord no doubt has seen a quality in you that can be used to perfect HIS BODY .

    The Lord Be with you till we meet again, Bro Gary White

  16. Gary White says:

    Bro Anynomous

    I am looking into it, I belive it was said in the last part of January 2011, Sun Am I think in the first half of the service. I will keep trying to find out exactly when. Thankyou for at least caring. God Bless GW

  17. Madiba says:

    Brother Anonymous,

    I won’t post anything until Bro. Gary gives you the details you have required>

  18. ShalomShalom says:

    Bro Anonymous,

    The information you are looking for is found in the sermon “Walk Worthy Pt 2″ delivered on January 16, 2011.

    The whole series is good, but if you wish to jump straight to the section you were requesting, you can find it at 1:31:42 through 1:39:00 of the 2:25:21 long file.

    God Bless You,

  19. Madiba says:

    An extract from an article written by another from a Christian Journal, and I could not help but wonder that even though this man does not know Malachi 4 but his observation have an element of truth. Herewith is the extract below:

    Everyone knows “splits never happen to nice people.” My conclusion then is there must not be any nice people on earth. I cannot name one devout Christian who has been one for thirty years who has not witnessed at least one split. Doctrines do not father splits. Doctrinal differences arise after the split, to make sure Christian friends who are in the opposing camps, don’t stay friends any longer! You cannot cause a split until you first drive a wedge between your people and His people. Only after a man succeeds in convincing others to follow him can he form a new work! If he fails to drive a wedge between Christians, he fails in the split. He must attack the other’s teachings to accomplish the ending of friendships between believers. He must do this loud enough and long enough in an atmosphere of criticism, rumor, charge and countercharge, until people believe him. Remember, all this is done to defend God.

    Over the years I have gleaned a few points that seem to be common to church splits and raids. A raid is when a person comes into a church and leads a handful of people away to his cause. His style is very important. He is not rude, pushy or insistent. Polls show, that all who listen agree that this brother who raised these issues was doing it out of a pure heart. But the division still took place.

    1. The one who is leading the raid or split if stopped at any point before he leaves with his stolen sheep will declare that he is innocent and is falsely accused.

    2. Just about everyone will believe him; even those who do not follow. He is seen as innocent and mistreated by the church’s leadership and they look like the villain.

    3. The one leading the raid or split plays himself as simply too spiritual to criticize his persecutors, even while criticizing them. Either way, the church’s leaders, if they dare try to stop him, get hung out to dry.

    4. His followers vow that they are in no way being influenced by him. I have never met a Christian who would admit that he was following a person in a raid or split. This statement help lead the people out: “We Christians should not have leaders. Only the Lord should lead us.”

    5. After the split the ones departing will continue their friendships with Christians in the church which they split! This creates a great problem of leaders in the church that has been raided or split. The exception is when the membership is committed to leadership. Then they can have fellowship with Christians of other churches.

    6. The leader of the split declares that God told him that, we are right and they are wrong, that the church he is splitting was a cult (or wrong doctrine) and not worthy to exist. (With God on your side, anything is ethical, is it not?)

    Before you leave, write down the reasons you are leaving. Then bring them to the Lord. Ask yourself, are you a person who gets his feelings hurt easily? Have you picked up another’s offense? Write down how you are leaving. Quietly? With a group? Full of hurt? Reconciled? Un-reconciled? If you say, “I feel led of God to leave.” Then leave. But I doubt that God also told you to criticize as you depart, or get angry, or take others with you. It is my studied judgment that God has never lead any man to split a local gartering of God’s people.

  20. ShalomShalom says:

    Was this wrote in response to Moses leading the children of Israel out of Egypt?

    Was this wrote in response to Jesus leading the disciples out of the Pharisees and Sadducees?

    Was this wrote in response to Polycarp leaving the first church of Rome? Remember it was the first church of Rome that “…took the opportunity to turn the government against the true believers and demand their persecution unless they came into their fold.”

    Was this wrote in response to Bro Branham coming out from Bro Roy Davis’s ministry and staring a work in the area?

    Was this wrote in response to the prophet bringing the Bride out of the Laodicean Church Age?

    Remember this: Bro Graham Snelling was the assistant pastor at the Jeffersonville Tabernacle in ’49; conducted a revival meetings in Charlsetown in ’57; pastored the Holiness Tabernacle at Utica in ’59; however, Bro Branham didn’t throw off on him or his ministry even though he had a church in the same area as he did. In fact, Bro Branham encouraged the people to go hear him, and even told those who weren’t baptized yet that Bro Snelling would be glad to baptize them at a baptismal he was conducting at the church in Utica.

    If you want to see how close this area was to the Tabernacle in Jeffersonville, please go to Google maps at this link
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Charlestown,+IN&daddr=Utica,+IN+to:Jeffersonville,+IN&hl=en&geocode=FYC_SgIdn8bk-ikLbzDWCXlpiDHxgaAkUVNpYw%3BFe_sSAIduwfl-in37py3lnZpiDEovjvBOAnatQ%3BFcIRSAIdH8Hj-inFTbC4SnJpiDGoimuwx1FFnA&mra=ls&sll=38.362657,-85.652847&sspn=0.244432,0.673599&ie=UTF8&ll=38.362657,-85.696106&spn=0.244432,0.673599&z=11

    Brother Branham had a Spirit that was one of spreading the Word, not one of spreading man made dominion.

  21. ShalomShalom says:

    Brother,

    I see that you had some doctrinal questions. I could give you answers for those questions from the Message and Scripture.

    I only ask that you start another thread without mentioning names of either party involved. For if we are to discuss the Word, let’s discuss the Word. Let’s not get hung up on supporting one individual over another, for we know in the Word that we know no man after the flesh.

    Besides, I do not think either party openly wishes for anyone to conduct a blog in their behalf. If they do inwarldy, neither of us has the ability to know unless we speak to them directly.

    Please consider what I ask sincerely.

  22. DustInTheWind says:

    Madiba,

    After reading many of your comments I see one common underlying thing with you… ARGUEMENTATIVE. It does not matter what is said to you… or proven… you argue it… yet you aren’t even in Canada, you don’t know any of the people, you have no clue what happened at CBW yet you argue… you are presented with the truth yet you cannot handle the truth. Now you have tried to turn this into a “doctrinal” split which has absolutely NOTHING to do with it. Please remember Madiba, it was the people at LWF AND CBW, when they were all together, that for YEARS, dug DEEP into their pockets to make sure YOU got books, printers, computers, the MESSAGE…. and if it was not YOU directly… then it’s YOU indirectly. These same people who helped even when they couldn’t afford it, are the same ones now that YOU attack.
    The split has NOTHING to do with doctrine… its just complete loss of confidence and trust… it’s as simple as that… yet YOU try and turn it into some great mystery with your quotes and research… you have had people on your blog be open and honest to you and yet you spit at them with your replies… you are never happy with their answers…ShalomShalom even has politely tried to get you to stop the garbage… you are way off into the wilderness in your thoughts and you only make a mockery of yourself. Your above posting has absolutely NOTHING to do with what happened in BC, CANADA… and if you were such a wonderful great loving christian… your attitude would be nothing but LOVE and prayers for those who stayed… and those who left… yet all you do… is attack the ones who left… yet you don’t know any of them… and you know none of those who stayed… so I must ask… WHO are you FOLLOWING? God or a personality? Madiba… seriously… perhaps hang up your hat on this… its all finished anyways… its old news… no one hardly comments on this blog… you are beating a dead horse trying to get an argument going with people…no one trusts this blog I am sure after seeing what we have seen with how that first brother’s private conversation with Batsi was posted… and now how you guys railroaded Gary White… trying to lead someone in with all the “my precious brother” and “shalom and peace be with you my brother” and “love you my brother, keep up that good spirit” then you guys ATTACK!
    Madiba, with you, all I see is a VERY religious spirit… and it’s almost funny because while YOU think you are doing great in your life… that’s the spirit that God HATES the most… over and above anything else… imagine that?! Don’t forget Madiba… these people at CBW and LWF… together OR apart… are still sons and daughters of God… be careful with that religious spirit and how you attack people… it only proves you are showing favoritism and trying to be some sort of hero for the pastor at CBW… I truly don’t think he would appreciate you doing what you are doing because you are making a mockery of the Message with your muddled thinking.

    Shalom and peace be with you and keep on marching my precious christian soldier brother in the battle!! ;)

  23. brobatsi says:

    DustInTheWind

    Hello… again??! I can’t help but notice the striking resemblance your tone and grammar has to two other bloggers I’ve interacted with. InGodWeTrust..All OthersPayCash and of course tsanning.
    I think this last comment of yours has confirmed our suspicions. The two were either one and the same person or very closely associated. I’m also convinced you were and are associated with the “elder” who contacted us.
    Let’s examine this: You chose the handle “DustInTheWind” the title track of an old rock ‘n’ roll song by a group called Kansas. I remember how much you and tsanning loved Bob Dylan.
    TO ANYONE WHO CARES TO READ THIS: Go to: http://menscommands.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/in-regione-caecorum-rex-est-luscus/
    -Check the comment from InGodWeTrust..All OthersPayCash.
    -Click on the profile picture.
    -It gives you a gravatar profile labelled http://en.gravatar.com/dustinthewind69

    hmmm… “dustinthewind69″
    Coincidence? I seriously doubt that.

    Your attitude hasn’t changed either. You said: “Please remember Madiba, it was the people at LWF AND CBW, when they were all together, that for YEARS, dug DEEP into their pockets to make sure YOU got books, printers, computers, the MESSAGE…. and if it was not YOU directly… then it’s YOU indirectly.”
    This thinking is quite stereotypical and reflects the racial/cultural bias you exhibited before. What gives you the idea that we got equipment or support from CBW? I suppose in your mind all of “Africa” is the same and places like Congo and South Africa MUST share the same resources!
    Try talk to your “elder” and do a bit of research. Maybe he’ll help you clear up where the outreach funds went. As I stated before, we are not nor have we ever been financially connected with either CBW or LWF. Your assumption is based upon naivety and ignorance.
    “Africa” is not a single country and not all of us are dependant upon handouts/aid or donations for our survival; spiritually or otherwise.
    You seem quite hurt by some of these statements. If you’re this sensitive to digital communication, how can you sit in the service? Are you able to stand correction from the pulpit or do you follow the spirit that Gary White expressed i.e. “I could go on & on. I am glad to say that if Bro Lance ever tried any thing like that at LWF most of us would probably walk out.” Out of interest; when was the last time you were in a service? And how did you cope if it was one of those services that the prophet describes here:
    -The trouble of it is we have got to much Hollywood preaching and not enough old time rough preaching. I like the old time kind that really tears the hide off of you, brings it down to a place where it belongs. To much petting around, we need the old fashion Gospel (Amen.) preached in its power of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. That’s what the world needs today. Total annihilation…- JEHOVAH.JIREH_ INDIANAPOLIS.INDIANA WEDNESDAY_ 57-0612

    If you had a problem with a minister would you
    a)run and talk to others about it?
    b)approach him directly and deal with the issue?
    c)wait 26 years before you bring it up then use it as an excuse cause a split?

    This question still bears the assumption that you believe what the people at CBW and LWF believe. If that’s not the case, then what are your beliefs?

    Let us know a little more and maybe we can view your statements as having some credibility. For now; they sound like the ramblings of an angry teenager who confuses correction for “muddled thinking” and still prefers to hide behind a computer screen.

    I’d like to thank you (InGodWeTrust..All OthersPayCash, tsanning and the “elder” XXXXXXXXXXX) for your continued support. Stay tuned for our newest post coming soon. Titled: “Post Mortem” (No pun intended!)

    God bless you.

  24. brobatsi says:

    Not to mention: BinDerDunDat’s profile on the other blog.
    Same person as well?! It seems anonymity is necessary for your survival. Multiple profiles to mimic “varying” opinions. Quite a tactic for people who demand transparency and recourse from their former pastor.
    Did your “elder” put you up to this? You’re related to him aren’t you?

  25. brobatsi says:

    I have another question/concern that I’d like addressed. I don’t mean to offend in any way but I am quite curious about some goings on.
    During the early days of LWF there was a Brother of African descent who seemed to have been preaching quite often. I’ve heard him preach before and I personally thought that the Brother has a gift.
    Now; given the tone that our friends such as InGodWeTrust..All OthersPayCash have expressed in their communication, I can’t help but wonder if this sentiment is not echoed amongst other parties they may or may not be associated with. When I say tone I mean the type of communication that is insidiously laced with ethnic/cultural bias. I’ve taken a look at how naturally some statements have been expressed (remember Goony Goo Goo?) and while they may not overtly be interpreted as racist; they are sure to leave a bad taste in any person of colour’s mouth.
    If, InGodWeTrust et. al. are associates within a group and that group naturally is beholden to this type of speech or expression, it’s no wonder that a couple of months down the line, the Brother (Pictured below) is nowhere to be seen.
    Is this environment friendly to all or is it not? Am I reading too much into things or am I on to something? As always, I invite correction if I’m wrong but given the glaring assumptions about Africans that these young people have expressed and the fact that as a youngster; he/she MUST learn it from somewhere (especially if correction is not on the menu), I am forced to believe that the environment cited (“elders” and all) may not be friendly to us Sub-Saharan sepic skinned personalities.
    Any insight?
    DK

  26. Gary White says:

    Bro Batsi

    Shalom, my freind, This is Bro Didier, your right he certainly has a gift, He is certainly welcomed at LWF, You dont see him to much because he pastours a church now. We just had him over for diner, he has been a good freind to me & Bro Ed for many years. He tried very hard to help bro Ed before the split & he would still try to help him now if he could.

    It sounds as if yawll have had some real bad experiences with these other guys, I dont know who they are or what all they have said but I know that bro Branham said that he very much doubts any body haveing the Holy Ghost if they can have a bad attitude towards the black people.

    I would like to quote a black bro from Africa. His name is Bro Jerimiah, I have always loved his teaching ministry, He said to be carefull what we say about our bros & sis because they are Christ body on earth. I treid to aply this while I was a deacon. I learned the hard way how to show love & patience to them that are ignorant & out of the way.
    Every one please be carefull as we hurl insults back & forth to one another, I wonder if the world isnt watching to see how we handle these situations, I know for sure that the Lord is. Bride does not persecute Bride, & may I add the Bride should not persecute any one.

    Rough preaching, I like hard preaching, especialy when its some one else other than myself on the recieving end. (like my wife) (ha) Seriuously though, I think there is a diference between true Holy Ghost correction & some preacher who is just preaching (screaming) according to his own mind.

    I would like to give some examples of the results that came out of this rough preaching that we endured at CBW. One sis who heard this kind of preaching thought that God was angry with her because her husband stop coming to church a long time ago.
    Another bro heard the rough sermons & thought God was condeming him because his sons were not comeing to church.
    Yet another senior bro was very disturbed because he was very sick & was hoping to recieve faith for healing but couldnt because of all the screaming at the pulpit.
    One bro called me & asked who is Vashti in our church & who is comiting adultry?
    I am trying very carefull to not dishoner Gods servents but I dont belive that these are the kind of results that come from real God inspired services. These kind of services genderd doubts,fear & confusion to many. God have mercy on the poor visitors that were in our midst while all this was going on.

    Again I belive that there is a diference between freindly fire & real rough preaching that Bro Branham encouraged.
    Bro Batsi do you really belive that it was ok for bro Ed to mention those peoples names over the pulpit like that?? & associate them with all kinds of evil charachters from the Bible?? Never mind it not being acurate. Even if all the acusations were true I still cant see that being aceptable behavor.

    As I read my Bible I many times read things in there that I could match with the leadership at CBW. But I refuse to even let my mind go there. I dont belive that I have been elevated to a position to begin to pronounce final judgements on ANY ONE especialy they that are professing this message.

    I am sory you bros seem to disagree with most any thing I say. I would like to say just spit out the pits & keep eating but I supose you see nothing but pits with my words, You are certainly entitled to feel that way if you wish.

    I had truely hoped that my staments here would of been looked upon as a labour of love to the bride. These revelations & experiences that I have tried to share with yawll didnt come cheap. They have come at a great cost to me & my family in many ways.
    I have learned to come to a rest when speaking what I belive to be the mind of God. If it is of God then I know He will vindicate it & bring it to pass, if its just my own thouhts it will fail & I would want it to fail.

    I hope you bros will do the same.

    I Didnt demannd transparancy from Bro Ed, but I did try to encourage it, He did not see it my way so now we are apart. I respect his decision, I dont agree with him but I am not going to start spueing out all kinds of evil propheseies out against him either, or any one else for that matter.

    Closing on a lighter note: I know we arent really suposed to have any national pride but I recon we all have a liitle. It was good to see you rare up & defend South Africa.
    Some years ago some elders were sugesting that the American belivers should find a church on the U.S. side of the border. This was said because the church at CBW was over crowded. I said wait just a minute folks, If yawll will let us Americans continue to come to your Canadian church then we Americans will continue to let you listen to OUR AMERICAN PROPHRT. That got em.

    The Lord richely bless you all Gary White & family

  27. brobatsi says:

    Thanks Bro Gary for that information.
    I’m glad to see you haven’t lost your sense of humour through all this!
    God bless you.

  28. DustInTheWind says:

    Batsi,

    Yet again you take something and twist it. So far you and Madiba have tried to turn this into a “doctrine” split… now you throw the question out if its a “racial bias” problem in the church… thats the furthest from the truth. Get over yourself will you? No one is slinging any racial slurs… yet in your last post you “try” and make it “look” like there is a racial problem. I know many people of many different ethnic backgrounds and never once have I been racist. That would be rather childish would it not? I am only racist against IDIOTS. YOU said:
    Am I reading too much into things or am I on to something? As always, I invite correction if I’m wrong but given the glaring assumptions about Africans that these young people have expressed and the fact that as a youngster; he/she MUST learn it from somewhere (especially if correction is not on the menu), I am forced to believe that the environment cited (“elders” and all) may not be friendly to us Sub-Saharan sepic skinned personalities.
    Any insight?

    Yes you are reading into it way to much so stand corrected please, instead of spitting back. It seems that anything said to you or Madiba is always rejected. A person cannot trust YOU or your blog based on what we have seen here with how you posted Bro XXXX confidential comments to YOU, in which YOU promised that those conversations would NOT become public. You lied. With Gary White you sucked him into a comfort zone with all your “heavenly language” as Madiba says he is so well versed in, then Gary opens up and shows his insides, and you attack and devour it leaving anything he said to be of “non-effect” and label him as following a “spirit” when you said this:
    Are you able to stand correction from the pulpit or do you follow the spirit that Gary White expressed….
    Hmmmm… seems to me that you are making an accusation of some guy named Gary following a certain “spirit”. Which “spirit” would that be? Certainly NOT the Balaam spirit now is it? Didn’t Lance already get pegged for THAT? You guys are actually entertaining… you are definitely showing your true colours! (racial slur not intended just in case you start to THINK too much again)
    Tsanning mentioning Bob Dylan has nothing to do with anybody but Tsanning so don’t bother throwing other people in with it as you did when you said :
    I remember how much you and tsanning loved Bob Dylan.
    Did anyone say they loved Bob Dylan? Did anyone mention Bob Dylan besides Tsanning? No! Do I know Tsanning? NO!!!! For the umpteenth time!!
    I am glad that you know the song by Kansas called Dust In The Wind… is there something wrong with the name Dust In The Wind? If I used the name Hotel California would you tell everyone something that they already knew… and say it was a track title from the Eagles in the 70′s?
    When you mention the funds for outreach that for years have been sent to Africa, I did say to Madiba that either “directly or indirectly” he has benefited from whats been sent. Then YOU say :
    Your assumption is based upon naivety and ignorance.
    Fair enough… I’ll take the correction. Out of your OWN mouth (keyboard) did you say that… well I would like to say the same back to YOU in regards to what has transpired in British Columbia. Your assumption is based upon naivety and ignorance!
    As well as your accusation of the “elder” XXXXX … you seem to have a real keen intrigue with the “elder” for some reason… and yes he is related to me… he’s my brother…. but then again I guess YOU are related to me too now aren’t you…brother!? Bro XXXX has NOTHING to do with asking ANYBODY to put anything up on here, so get over yourself, wrong again!!
    So settle your poor mind, no one is being racist, no one is debating over doctrine, no one is out to hurt or degrade the “the brothers from another colour”, Bro XXXX has nothing to do with anything other than what he first TRUSTED you with. You are being told the truth, so why don’t you accept the truth. So far you have proven yourself only to be untrustworthy, a liar by not keeping your word with Bro XXXX, a liar by NOT removing “Rita’s” names she posted as you PROMISED you would do the very next evening at the latest, a fabricator by twisting words and trying to “invent” a problem that doesn’t exist ie: racial bias and doctrinal split and finally a wolf attribute by attacking what Gary White said to you and you tore it apart and devoured it!
    I will no longer post on here nor read this blog, its all nonsensical when you and Madiba make your “assumptions”. It has NOTHING to do with YOU and to be quite honest I don’t know why any of us even bothered to reply or acknowledge you when you live a world apart and have nothing to do with any of this. I would advise anybody who reads this blog to not even bother commenting anymore, let it finish dying and then bury it. Batsi I am sure you are a good man, as well as Madiba your follower, but honestly you are BOTH way off track and for any of us to comment anymore on here would be just a total waste of time and would only extend the so called “life” of this blog and the RELIGIOUS spirit that is behind it. We’re all part of the body I guess, I believe I know which part I am, don’t leave it open for us to decide which part we think YOU are by how you act, because truly, you have both been acting like one! Clean the garbage off your own doorstep. You are both fantastic with quotes and references and scriptures, and that is very impressive to some I guess, but to most of us, we know that Satan himself knows every square inch of the Bible and Message, he is “wicked” shall I say with quotes and referrals etc… but one thing he CAN’T duplicate, fake or display is LOVE… and I really see that you are BOTH lacking in that department, plus your garbage you spew out on this blog certainly shows no love… may I ask? What “spirit” is it that both of YOU are following? Common sense would make a person think its not a Godly spirit. Afterall, all we have seen is lies, accusations, seed planting, betrayal, diversions, not able to stand correction and backstabbing by you guys on here. Hmmmm… yet you are both amazing with quotes and references… and cover it all in a nice sweet package of “Shalom and God be with you my precious brother” yada yada yada….
    As I said, I will not be replying or posting anymore on here, I find it a waste of my time, and I get impatient with “dense” people, so instead of replying to this with some smart mouthed attitude, maybe take it to heart and really check your motives and your life, maybe learn to bite your tongue and worry about cleaning up your own front yard… and if its NOT the right SPIRIT you have been following…. get rid of it quick! That religious spirit is a bad one. And quit whining about racism… no ones racist here. If you can’t take a joke, you shouldn’t be one.
    I’ve heard it said before… It’s better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and prove it… excellent job guys!

    Take this all in love, from your white, hotdog eating, NASCAR watching, trailer court living, baseball cap wearing, gut hanging out, cracker brother from across the seas… :)
    (Happy now?)

    Adios! I’m finished with this blog! The rest of you reading… do the same… the elevator isn’t reaching the top floor on this site.

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Bro,

      I’m not impressed with quotes and scriptures taken out of context with no understanding. However, engaging in a quote / scripture war would do what? It wouldn’t necessarily stop the false assumptions some have been mislead to believe.

      For example, if some are totally against splits, then why would that individual endorse a man that deliberately split his pastor’s church in a different area just to obtain missionary offerings? Also why would his paid staff deliberately split the church of an individual that didn’t side with his unscriptural way of handling sin in the leadership positions of the church? Why would he misinform a dear brother from overseas to come to his church and discredit that brother through political maneuvering? God protested that action by blocking access of that brother’s visa and forcing him to stay in the states.

      As for politics, the vote is not the thing that is political. The thing that is political is the actions of those trying to seize power and control by any means necessary. There more dictators in politics than the others that are in politics. Remember those that received power with the beast in Rev 17:12 were dictators.

      Pro 30:33 Surely the churning of milk bringeth forth butter, and the wringing of the nose bringeth forth blood: so the forcing of wrath bringeth forth strife.

  29. Gary White says:

    Dear Dust in the wind

    Bro Batsi did ask for some coorection & clarification, Go ahead & give it to him, but make sure he is still breathing when you are done with him.

    If his feelings have been hurt, lets say were sorry even if there is no validity to the concerns. Its probably easy for me to talk because I dont know what all you have gone through with these bros.

    Thank you for trying to stick up for me a litle the Lord knows I need all the help I can get. These bros have a right to disagree with the things we say, at least they seem willing to listen. Futhure more I share your fustrations with some of there conclusions & asumptions, But I want to be open to anything the Lord may show them that would help us in our walk with the LORD.
    I am freinds with a pastour in Texas, He one time told me that he was going to rename his church; I am right & every one else is wrong. (ha) Hey dust in the wind eat a hot dog for me.

    Again I say lets use a litle honey with or swords.

    God Bless GW

  30. Madiba says:

    Shalom,

    I guess DustInTheWind’s blood pressure must be shooting through the roof by now, and it is understable in any sensitive discusstion around church splits. However, what is regretable is his propensity to brand us as being possessed by a religious spirit.

    Maybe DustInTheWind has somewhat been given a gift of discernment, and hence he can conclude that our determination to seek answers either from Tsanning or ‘elders’ is a sign that we are possessed by an evil spirit [the prophet said that a religious spirit is five times dangerous than any other spirit]. We have never attacked anybody but we have always agreed to disagree with our brothers at Living Word Fellowship, and brother Gary White has shown maturity in responding to us.

    Brother Gary: I am inclined to think that the concerns of DustInTheWind are really misplaced since you never complained to us that we are condescending towards you in anyway. We have responded to us warmly and at no point in time did you call us names irrespective of how sensitive were the questions we raised with you. You know where we stand in relation to LWF, and our stance has not changed and we agreed to disagree as adults. I love the joke that you shared with us ‘If you let us [Americans] come to your Canadian church we [Americans] will to let you [Canadians] continue to listen to our American prophet] I appreciate your humour my dear brother.

    Our disagreement with the legitimacy of Living Word Fellowship does not in anyway suggest that we think that they are hell-bound, and we will be the first ones to raise our hands should we be called to testify that Bro. Lance Le Roux is a gifted minister. I agree with what Bro. Gary raised that CBW was beginning to be crowded and at some point in time some did suggest that they should be another church next to the border, and on Living Word Fellowship Facebook page there was a believer who was happy that finally there was a church.

    I believe in planting churches as Paul used to do in the early days of Christianity as tool for the furtherance of the gospel. However, in the same breath I totally disagree that a church should be started on hearsays, romours, allegations, gossip, belittling others, and many other undesirable factors. The people at Cloverdale Bibleway Church [including the departed members of the LFW] projected the ministry of Brother Ed Byskal to be a sound ministry, hence they gave their hard-earned offerings into the missions and as a result of their efforts churches sprung up all over the globe. The ordained pastors looked at Cloverdale Bibleway Church as an epitome of what a church should be like given the motherly spirit that CBW projected to those brethern. If I was to use an analogy I would say it like parents bringing up that children and one day out of the blue they label each other as demons and decide to call it a day. I guess children would demand answers. I am just being a voice for those people out there who may not have the resources to demand these answers but wish to state categorically that I have never benefited from CBW sponsorships and my stand in relation to this matter is not compromised in anyway.

    LWF Elders will continue to owe answers to posterity as to how their assembly came into being, and they might wish to eradiacate Ed Byskal from their minds and conversations but in reality he is their elder whether they agree or disagree. A lot of issues raised here as a reason for the breakaway are somewhat not convincing, and in my experience these issues, [legitimate] as they are, are merely used as a scapegoat to cater to the ambitions of other individuals who had a bone to chew with Ed Byskal.

    I mean if you tell that people left the church because somebody was just yelling at them then do you want to tell me that the baptismal services that were held over that people were not genuine as they took place in the midst of that ‘yelling’. I failed to comprehend that really! We took a conscious decision to divorce ourselves from emotions in our strive to seeking answers, as we think that emotions is what made the right process to be derailed in the first place.

    I have asked a question which nobody even to this day never attempted to answer, and everytime I ask this question I am taken on an emotional meloground. I will ask it again for the benefit of those who might have missed it. DID LFW ELDERS SEEK AN OUTSIDE HELP IN THAT TIME OF DISTRESS? DID THEY INVITE ANY PASTOR TO COME AND MEDIATE IN THEIR DISAGREEMENT WITH ED BYSKAL? IF THERE A PASTOR, WILL THAT PASTOR TESTIFY ON A PUBLIC PLATFORM THAT HE INDEED TRIED TO MEDIATE AND ED BYSKAL REFUSED TO COOPERATE? THE INVOLVEMENT OF THE PASTOR SHOULD NOT HAVE JUST BEING LIMITED TO THE PRIVATE E-MAILS AND CALLS WITHOUT THE INVOLVEMENT OF OTHER PARTIES. WAS YOUR DEPARTURE OVERSEEN BY ANY PASTOR?

    If I get answers to this question I would even travel to Canada and stand in front of the Living Word Fellowship Chuch members and say that I am really sorry indeed to have misinterpreted their stand. I have not refuted that any of the departed members might have been wrong but what I need to state categorically is I disapprove of the people ganging up against any other man [be it Ed Byskal or any] without exhausting the entire spiritual process of handling issues. However, until I get an answer to these questions I will continue to ask and loudly so the legitimacy of Living Word Fellowship.

    Everytime I ask questions I am told that this is a Canadian problem and does not involve me in any way. I need to remind you that although I am in South Africa I am not a South African orginally but I am a member of the Bride who is a mystical body of Jesus Christ. Please! Never ever sing that note that this is a Canadian problem as by now it sounds too boring for my ears. We will not encourage this trend of splinter churches mushrooming all over based on incoherent reasons.

    I have no desire to be Ed Byskal’s hero, and I just met him once when he came to the assembly of Willie Retief in Johannesburg and I am sure he does not remember him, and I wish not to remind him as who I am. I am not protecting a personality but there is principle in place that I am protecting.

    Brother Gary should you decide to leave Living Word Fellowship and another assembly starts smowhere expect me to have a difficult conversation with you but for now I need an answer to questions I have raised in relation to the CBW.

    If I am wrong Brother DustInTheWind please pray for me and never dismiss me as just being posssed by an evil spirit when I seek answers. You are most welcome to leave the blog but please appreciate the fact that people who come here are adults and can make informed decision in terms of participation on this blog.

    WE WILL NEVER EVER COMMENT ON THE CONVERSATION WE HAD WITH THE BRO XXXX AS THE MATTER WAS CONCLUDED OFFLINE, AND THE BROTHER CONCERNED KNOWS HIS OPTIONS AND ANY RAMBLINGS REGARDING THAT WILL NOT BE ENTERTAINED, AS THE BRO CONCERNED DEEMED THE MATTER CLOSED.

  31. Gary White says:

    Bro Madiba

    Yes, to the best of my understanding the elders were very much in favor of bringing in several outside pastoures: Tim Dodds, Dony Reagun, Ron Peterson I belive were some that were mentioned. I dont know if for sure if it was oficialy sugested to bro Ed.

    As A RULE YOU JUST COULD NOT GET TO FIRST BASE WITH BRO ED ON THIS SUBJECT. I dont know how I can get you to belive what I am saying on this mater.

    I will look in to the mater more for you to confirm my answeres. How ever there were 3 very seasoned ministers involved that tried tiresly to help in the situation, they all came up with the same conclusion that with no cooperation out of Bro Ed then nothing can be done. I know for a fact that these bros were physicaly, mental, spiritualy exausted when we left.

    God Bless GW

  32. ShalomShalom says:

    Bro Madiba,

    I fail to see where any of your questions were not answered except for the rhetorical ones based upon doctrinal issues.

    I offered to answer your doctrinal questions, but you do not wish to pursue this.

    As for the steps of addressing issues dealing with those refusing to line up with the Word, what other steps do you feel needs to take place except Matthew 18:15-22? Are you trying to go above and beyond scripture to maintain your stance?

    The only part I see that was not followed in this instance was Matthew 18:17, and the only reason that didn’t take place was because the person that was not following the Word refused to let the church be told. What else are you supposed to do when you exhausted all other possibilities to get someone to come in line with the Word and he blocks the process of Matthew 18 and takes the Word out of context just to slam people with it?

    Now instead of repenting, the individual (and others) wants to call the people who walked away as peacefully as possible evil names and claim nobody should have anything to do with them.

    Let me ask this, would such people who do this have a problem with this quote? I wouldn’t want to stand in the shoes of the man that has problems with what the prophet of God says.

    62-1122 RETURN.AND.JUBILEE_ SHREVEPORT.LA THURSDAY_
    E-71 The sounding of the trumpet. Yes, sir, return, dispersed. But if you’ve sold your inheritance, if you sold out and done these things… What am I saying? Return back. If you joined up with some cult that tries to keep you away from fellowship with other brethren, leave the thing. This is jubilee. Amen. I feel religious. Return. Return. This is jubilee. Don’t let it pass by. Remember, don’t let it pass by.
    If you’ve sold out, if you’ve went out in the world, if you’ve sinned, you knowed that you once had the experience, you went and joined up where you can’t fellowship with the rest of them, you done all these things… I don’t care what you’ve done, if you’re a son, you have a right to return now because it’s jubilee. It’s jubilee time.

    • Madiba says:

      I guess the one you raised you should be balanced with this one here…

      63-0728 CHRIST.IS.THE.MYSTERY.OF.GOD.REVEALED_ JEFFERSONVILLE.IN V-3 N-7 SUNDAY_
      80 Love one another, above everything. Love one another. Don’t… No matter what the devil tries to say! Now you’re all one great big sweet group now, but remember my warning, see, Satan won’t let that stay that way. No, sir. He’ll shoot everything, if he has to bring somebody in to make his target. He’ll bring some critic or unbeliever in, and sit him down, and cause him to fellowship with you under the quietness and things, and then he’ll shoot that guy with some kind of a poison stuff, and he’ll start through the church with it. Don’t you take sides with it. Don’t you have nothing to do with anything else. You stay right loving and sweet and kind to one another. Pray for that man, that he’ll be saved too, or that woman, or ever who it is, just pray for them. And stick one with another.
      81 And stay with your pastor. See, he’s the shepherd, and you give him respects. He’ll lead you through, and, ’cause he’s ordained of God to do so.

      63-0728 CHRIST.IS.THE.MYSTERY.OF.GOD.REVEALED_ JEFFERSONVILLE.IN V-3 N-7 SUNDAY_
      82 Now do you remember that? [Congregation says, "Amen."--Ed.] The enemy will come. And when he does, just cling that much closer together. And the one that the devil is using for an enemy will either get out or come in and be one of you. That’s all.

      83 Don’t never clan among one, or–or talk and make yourself clannish. We are one. I couldn’t say, “Left hand, I’m–I’m mad at you, I’m going to take you away ’cause you’re not a right hand.” He’s my left hand. I want him to stay there. Even the little tip of my finger, I want to stay right there, every little part of my body stay right there. And God wants us, as a body of believers, to stay right exactly with one another, right at with one another.

      63-0728 CHRIST.IS.THE.MYSTERY.OF.GOD.REVEALED_ JEFFERSONVILLE.IN V-3 N-7 SUNDAY_
      84 And now you’ve got tapes on that. You’ve got tapes on what we believe. You’ve got tapes on discipline in the church, how we behave ourself in the church of God, how we got to come here together and sit together in Heavenly places. Don’t stay home. If God is in your heart, you can’t hardly wait for them doors to open out yonder, to get in here to fellowship with your brothers. If you don’t, don’t feel that way, then I tell you, it’s time you got to praying.
      85 Cause, we’re in the last days, where the Bible exalted… or exhorted us to–to, “Much more as we see that day approaching,” to love one another with Christian love and Divine love, “to assemble ourselves together in Heavenly places and–and–and Christ Jesus,” and love one another. “This will all man know you are My disciples, when you have love one for the other.” That’s right. Stay right together.

      63-0728 CHRIST.IS.THE.MYSTERY.OF.GOD.REVEALED_ JEFFERSONVILLE.IN V-3 N-7 SUNDAY_
      86 If the brother, you think he’s a little wrong, or the sister, say, “Lord, don’t let me never have the root of bitterness spring up, ’cause it’ll–it’ll affect him, and it’ll take the Christ right out of my life.” That poison acids of malice, and jealousy, and hatred, that will just take the Holy Spirit right away from you. It will run Him from the tabernacle here. It’ll kill the Spirit of God, or drive It away from here, hurt you pastor. It’ll do everything. See? Don’t you do that.
      87 You just wax that much closer together. Draw up the… Take the buckle, as the brother testified, a minister here the other night, about having a buckle, seeing it in a vision. Just… That buckles on the whole armor of God. Just pull her on, tighten up, move right up close to one another. Love one another, anyhow. Talk nice about one another, say nice things about one another, and then God will bless you.

      I guess especially somebody created an character called ‘Tsanning’ to undermine the dignity of Ed Byskal, and undermined the this quotation of our dear brother. I telll the same prophet told us to ‘Come out of them” even though the wanted a fellowship.

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Exactly my brother, let’s keep a balance.

        Let’s look and see what kind of pastor he was talking about. Bro Branham was talking about one that’s a great servant of Jesus Christ and ACTUALLY believes and teaches the Message the SAME way as the angel sent to the Seventh Church Age (63-0728). If he was saying you are duty bound to stay with a pastor just because some pastors declares this is so, then he was wrong when he (the prophet of God) left his pastor (Bro Roy Davis). You will also find that if you are duty bound to stay with an individual that goes contrary to the Word, then he would be contradicting himself in the sermon Influence (63-1130B) when he said if the “…man leaves the Word of God, you leave the man. See, you leave the man. Stay with God. God is the Word.”

        Remember we are to have reverence, humility, and ACTION. Since we are to be believers in word and in deed, we are supposed to manifest what we claim to believe. So if a man claims to believe the Message like the Seventh Church Age Messenger that the platform is to be holy and people living in filth shouldn’t be permitted to play music on the platform as stated in the sermon Thirst (65-0919), but he takes no action to manifest what he believes, does he really believe it?

        63-0728 CHRIST.IS.THE.MYSTERY.OF.GOD.REVEALED JEFFERSONVILLE.IN SUNDAY
        77 And I want you to remember that Brother Neville here, left in the church, in the charge of this tabernacle, under the Holy Spirit, that he is left here, and he believes this Message and–and teaches It just the same as I do. Right. And any time that you’d want to, you can see fit to come to hear Brother Neville, he certainly would do you good, I’m sure. He’s a great servant of Jesus Christ.

        63-1130B INFLUENCE SHREVEPORT.LA SATURDAY
        171 When he seen the effects, and then seen what taken place. Now I’m closing, one more thing I say. His feet and hands… His wings covered His face in reverence, His feet in humility, and then His two wings put Him in action. Just think of that, the effects of the vision upon the prophet! What did it do to the prophet? It showed him that no man, no man…
        172 Don’t put your confidence in a man. When that man leaves the Word of God, you leave the man. See, you leave the man. Stay with God. God is the Word.

        65-0919 THIRST TUCSON.AZ SUNDAY
        176 Now what about all this carrying on they done today, in the name of the church; practicing square dancing in the church, bunco, bingo, parties, teenagers rock-and-roll, twists, all these stuff! Look at this Elvis Presley, a devil standing in shoes! Pat Boone, Ricky Nelson, the biggest indebtment this nation has ever had! That’s right. They say, “Oh, they are very religious, they sang Christian songs.” It oughtn’t to, the church oughtn’t to even permit a thing like that! Some of these guys go out here, and–and tonight they’re in a–a roadhouse out here, dancing and playing music and everything, and the next night they come to the altar and weep, and the next night they’re playing music on the platform. Oh, goodness, gracious! How far can filth, how far could filth go, anyhow? Yes, sir. Prove himself first to be a man of God, not all this stuff just because he can beat an old guitar or something

        As for the blogger who went contrary to the Word, this was caused by none other than the one that the blog was against. It was started in response to that individual intentionally taking things in a negative light just to obtain an opportunity to undermine the dignity of someone he wanted to throw off on. Have you ever heard of the law of reaping and sowing? (Gal 6:6-10) If he wasn’t trying to slam another saint of God, then it wouldn’t have set off the woman preacher that doesn’t think she is a woman preacher.

      • Madiba says:

        Shalom Shalom,

        I guess I need to rephrase this because you can’t be Shalom Shalom when you are so Bitter Bitter.

        I guess before we suffocate each other by quotations I need to ask you two basic questions:

        1. Does the group that remained with Ed Byskal on their way to hell? Yes or No will help especially in the context of your subliminal allegation that you left because Ed Byskal was not the kind of Pastor that Br. Branham said you could stay with. I guess if it is the case that the prophet would not have advised us to stay with Ed Byskal as a pastor then he is a wrong pastor and being wrong then he cannot lead people to the righ place being heaven.

        2. The Tsanning blog is what Ed Byskal deserves in the context of ‘you reap what you sow’?

        3. Why are you so bitter?

        4. Do you hate Ed Byskal? I mean here you must not give a vague answer as I could not have asked this unless you mentioned that Tsanning is ‘the reap what you saw’ factor in life of Ed Byskal.

      • ShalomShalom says:

        test

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Brother,

        I gave you direct quotes, so you call me bitter? Why is that? You didn’t like those quotes?

        Those quotes brings out the doctrinal balance on what Bro Branham taught on staying with a brother as a spiritual leader, or when to find an exit when you have no confidence in a brother that doesn’t wish to line up with the Word.

        If you do not wish to believe the balance Bro Branham taught, then why aren’t you still in the denominational system you came out of? Was you the one that admitted you were trained by the Catholics or was it Bro Batsi?

        Why is it when someone brings out the balance which shows you aren’t looking at the whole picture, you have to try to accuse them of being bitter? Perhaps you should listen to the sermon “Unfailing Realities of God” (60-0626). You would really think the prophet of God was bitter when he brought out the balance of the Word. Or then again, perhaps you should look at the rest of the Word instead of a few isolated sections which ignores the rest.

        1) That depends on each individual’s walk with the Lord. Listen to 60-0626 for clarification. If they stayed because of financial support of their ministry, they stayed for the wrong reason. If they stayed because of wanting to please men of popularity, they stayed for the wrong reason. If they stayed because of fear, they stayed for the wrong reason. If they stayed because they believe things were correct, they should be happy with their decision. If they stayed because they don’t have a clue what was going on, they should be happy with their decision.
        Why do you think I left? You don’t go there, so should I assume you left? You assume too much. That’s the main thing that is wrong with your blog. You hold on to your assumptions even when you are shown those assumptions aren’t necessarily correct.

        Bro doctrinally speaking, just because a brother is a pastor, doesn’t mean he will lead you through. Jesus said if the blind follow the blind they BOTH fall in the ditch, so you better make sure the one you are following is one “that’s a great servant of Jesus Christ and ACTUALLY believes and teaches the Message the SAME way as the angel sent to the Seventh Church Age (63-0728). Also just because a brother becomes a pastor does not mean he doesn’t have to obey the Word anymore. That’s not the most important achievement we are to strive for. It’s fine and dandy to be one, but that’s not where you are supposed to stop at. You are to never to stop short of Jesus Christ. Bro Branham said this at Bro Ruddell’s church and you know how he wound up. So just because a brother is a fine pastor one day, doesn’t mean you are obligated to follow him the rest of your life. I’m sure you wouldn’t set under Bro Ruddell’s ministry today – well almost sure.

        60-0604 TO.WHOM.SHALL.WE.GO JEFFERSONVILLE.IN SATURDAY
        E-37b So the only eternal Achievement there is is Jesus Christ. There…
        If He’s the most and the best that we can achieve for, let’s–let’s make that our achievement then. Let’s be sure that we get Him. You might be a preacher; you might be a pastor; you might be a deacon; you might be a church member. But if you haven’t in your achievement…
        You might achieve and say, “I won’t stop till I become a preacher.” “I won’t stop till I become a deacon.” “I won’t stop till I become a church member.” Them things are all right, honorable. But listen here, brother. Don’t you stop short of Jesus Christ, or you haven’t got an eternal achievement. Because your pastor… that… Your work of a pastor will soon fade away; your work as a deacon will soon go; your church membership will be long re–dismissed from the minds of the people just a little while to come. But if you’ve achieved Jesus Christ, then you’ve got Eternal Life and you’ll can never die.
        ***end of quote***

        2) You don’t know about the law of reaping and sowing? You sow a little and you reap a lot.

        3) Do you have a mirror handy? If so, look in it and ask again.

        4) No sir, do you hate him? If you loved him, you wouldn’t have this blog open and trying to slam other ministers of the gospel just because you do not understand what is going on.

      • Madiba says:

        Shalom Shalom,

        I am surprised that you do not deem it necessary to involve Ed Byskal’s colleagues in this matter. Look at the qoute below then you will see that the prophet indicated that ministers in the Message are colleagues, and I thought that Ed Byskal’s colleagues should have been involved.

        Taking Sides With Jesus
        743-3 It was purposed tonight, I thought, as I had a–a dinner not long ago with our most beloved pastor, Brother Neville, and I was saying something to him what was on my heart. And I thought if we get a bunch of men together and the ministers (They’re our colleagues here of the Gospel and men.), we could talk to one another in a way that we wouldn’t talk it before the public, because we’re all and–we’re men that understand as men, Christian men. And that way… Usually in a congregation, a group, you say something, and–and one’ll lean it a little this way, and one’ll lean it that way, and–and then it goes all out. But where we come to try tonight to tell you what I have in my heart of, concerning the church and its a–and its place and its position.
        762-82 Now, I think this church… If you men would, when you build this church, make this like your headquarters and like Brother Neville here being like the senior elder among you. See? And sometimes you get a question that you can’t discuss out with your church out there, then bring it in here to Brother Neville and you all discuss it together. If there–you can’t come to any decision, I’ll be coming by pretty soon, then we’ll all come together with it.

        You need to know that Ed Byskal is an Elder not only of CBW but in the message community, and under his ministry church were established across the globe and I am of the view that you owe the Message community an explination. You can try to hide behind many qoutations but the fact remains that the pastors who were ordained by Bro. Ed need answers from you.

        When you look at the below quote then you will see that the Cloverdale Bibleway Church is part of the Bride, and that Ed Byskal has colleagues in the ministry as senior pastors in their respective assemblies.

        65-1125 THE.INVISIBLE.UNION.OF.THE.BRIDE.OF.CHRIST_ SHREVEPORT.LA V-2 N-15 THURSDAY_

        10 Now I want to pass greetings on down the line, to the churches now that’s hooked up across the state. We’re on the telephone hookup, which is a fine little system that we have been able to get, through our Brother Pearry Green from Beaumont, Texas. And the churches, completely, that’s following the Message , all the way across the United States, is hooked up, tonight. We send greetings, up and down the West Coast, all the way from Vancouver down to Tijuana, Mexico, through San Jose, Los Angeles. All the groups over in there, we greet you from Shreveport. Also, all the way to Prescott, Arizona, to the group up there that’s waiting on the Lord, we send greetings to you, and to Tucson, also Sierra Vista. All the way to New York, up and down, across the nation, the Lord bless you, each one. Wish you were here, tonight, this beautiful old state of Louisiana, where it seems like a second home, to me. I…

        I believe that our church is included in this statement as well as any other message church.

        NB: You have accused me on making up assumptions but need to remind you that you not in a position to answer my questions unless you were a part of CBW and left for the LWF. If my assumption that you are part of the group is incorrect then I beg you not answer something you don’t know and this will allow people like Bro. Gary to respond.

        Bro. Gary: You promised to provide answers to the questions that I have raised and Shalom Shalom is welcome to comment but not to distract us from the main issue, which is:

        DID LFW ELDERS SEEK AN OUTSIDE HELP IN THAT TIME OF DISTRESS? DID THEY INVITE ANY PASTOR TO COME AND MEDIATE IN THEIR DISAGREEMENT WITH ED BYSKAL? IF THERE A PASTOR, WILL THAT PASTOR TESTIFY ON A PUBLIC PLATFORM THAT HE INDEED TRIED TO MEDIATE AND ED BYSKAL REFUSED TO COOPERATE? THE INVOLVEMENT OF THE PASTOR SHOULD NOT HAVE JUST BEING LIMITED TO THE PRIVATE E-MAILS AND CALLS WITHOUT THE INVOLVEMENT OF OTHER PARTIES. WAS YOUR DEPARTURE OVERSEEN BY ANY PASTOR?

        I guess for the mere fact that you mentioned that some pastors were contacted this on its own shows that if the board and pastor are at loggerheads then a senior neutral pastor should brought into the picture [I have provided a quote for this angle]

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Bro, I responded to the second time you posted the same thing to reduce redundancy.

  33. Gary White says:

    Bro Keith

    Hello, How are things doing in your neck of the woods? Me & my wife were just at Bro Frank Praters church in Arkansas last Oct. I hope to make more visits down your way in the future.
    Thanks for the coments you have made, they are a comfort to me at this time. I know bro Ed would apreciate them to.

    God Bless you & yours Bro GW

  34. ChildofGod says:

    God bless you brothers. All I wanna say is the the services at Cloverdale bibleway lately have been amazing ,trully the Lord is doing great things among them there is no way you can deny that . God richly bless brother Ed Byskal and all the believers that are attending Cbw.

    • Madiba says:

      Shalom,

      The messages that come to mind are as follows: ‘Recognizing the one amongst us’, ‘Who touched me Part 1 and 2?’, and ‘The testimonies from the camp’.

      I think Ed Byskal wants to point people to Christ, and his messages are not only directed to the CBW but to the Bride across the globe, and not only him but even other ministers like Donny Reagan, Israel Nkodima, Bro. Diyoka, Ron Spenser, Jeff Jenkins, Harold Beckett, Tim Pruit, Issaih Brooks, Tim Todd, Samuel Dale, Dan Daisley, and many other ministers.

      Hence, I think discrediting some of this long standing ministers is not gonna hold water. I mean they have not commited adultery or have not changed the doctrine but the allegations of mishandling a case cannot make us excommunicate them.

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Nobody is denying that gifts and callings are without repentance. Nor is anyone denying that the men in denominational systems don’t have good things to say. However, where is their anointing taking you to. To serving a system, or serving the Lord?

  35. Madiba says:

    Brother Gary,

    I am just glad you met your old friend Brother Keith. I will wait for the answers to the questions that I have raised with you.

    DID LFW ELDERS SEEK AN OUTSIDE HELP IN THAT TIME OF DISTRESS? DID THEY INVITE ANY PASTOR TO COME AND MEDIATE IN THEIR DISAGREEMENT WITH ED BYSKAL? IF THERE A PASTOR, WILL THAT PASTOR TESTIFY ON A PUBLIC PLATFORM THAT HE INDEED TRIED TO MEDIATE AND ED BYSKAL REFUSED TO COOPERATE? THE INVOLVEMENT OF THE PASTOR SHOULD NOT HAVE JUST BEING LIMITED TO THE PRIVATE E-MAILS AND CALLS WITHOUT THE INVOLVEMENT OF OTHER PARTIES. WAS YOUR DEPARTURE OVERSEEN BY ANY PASTOR?

    I guess the reason I need this [for the benefit of Shalom Shalom] is that Ed Byskal is a pastor and being at that level he has pastors that he interacts with in the Message community. If there is a dispute between the board and the Pastor then a senior pastor from outside should be brought into the picture.

    Brother Gary, I don’t appreciate name-dropping at all without putting context to the names. I mean if you say some brothers spoke to Donny Reagan, Tim Todd, Ron Spencer, Vin Diyal…etc that does not mean anything at all. I THEREFORE CAN SAY IT IS VERY MUCH UNFAIR FOR THESE PASTORS TO BE MENTIONED WITHOUT CLARRIFYING THEIR INVOLVEMENT IN THIS MATTER.

    I beg you from now on ‘no name-drooping’ unless we put a context to it. I STILL SAY IF THESE QUESTIONS COULD BE ANSWERED THEN I WILL SURELY TRAVEL TO CANADA AND STAND IN FRONT OF THE LWF MEMBERS AND APOLOGISE, AND THIS BLOG WILL BE DELETED OFF THE INTERNET WITH A CLOSING ARTICLE OF APOLOGY.

    I will appreciate your speedy response as this matter has been dragging for far too long, AND FURTHERMORE I SAY SHOULD YOU ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS PRECISELY THEN I AM OF THE OPINION THAT ED BYSKAL SHOULD BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED BECAUSED THAT SENIOR PASTOR WOULD TESTIFY THAT ED BYSKAL REFUSED TO BE CORRECTED. ED BYSKAL IS AN ELDER IN THIS MESSAGE BUT IF HE REFUSED TO BE CORRECTED BY ANOTHER ELDER AT HIS LEVEL THEN HE CANNOT CONTINUE TO BE AN ELDER AT ALL.

    HOWEVER, IF YOU FAIL TO RESPOND TO THESE QUESTIONS THEN MY ADVICE WILL BE TO REMAIN SILENT ON THE ED BYSKAL MATTER AND MAY BE TELL THE PEOPLE THAT THERE WAS A NEED FOR ANOTHER CHURCH NEXT TO THE BORDER[‘If you allow us (Americans) to come to your Canadian church then we (Americans) will continue to let you (Canadians) listen to our American prophet. (by the way this is really funny).

    This stance will redeem the image of Bro. Lance Le Roux and you will see other senior pastors in the message visiting your assembly BECAUSE IF THE TRUTH NEED BE TOLD EVERYBODY IS INTERACTING WITH YOUR ASSEMBLY WITH A SENSE OF CAUTION. I am not referring to ‘Pastoral Opportunists’ but Men of Intergrity as listed in our article entitled ‘BUSINESS VERSUS THE WORD’. I know Ed Byskal is on that page and I appreciate that he is a subject matter of contention on your part but these answers and the pastors’ testimony will help us to make an informed decision.

    Regards,

  36. ShalomShalom says:

    Brother,

    Please show me one place in the Word what you demand is required in the Word. The Bible never says this. The Message never says this. So where are you getting this notion you have, that a brother cannot receive the Word unless it is presented to him by his superiors?

    That’s the way the Catholic church operates. Nobody can show a priest the Word unless it is another priest, or an archbishop or a pope. Bro Branham used that taboo word nobody likes when dealing with that kind of spirit. “How can you say the laity has no word to say” (60-1204m 229).

    This is addressed towards your doctrinal understanding. It isn’t addressed towards a person. So don’t claim, I’m trying to hurt someone when I’m trying to show you that your understanding could use some tweaking on the subject of leadership positions. They aren’t our God. They are our brothers.

    83-1 EPHESIAN.CHURCH.AGE – CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.3
    “Thou hast tried them that say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars.”
    My, that is a blunt statement. “Thou hast tried them who call themselves apostles.” Isn’t that presumptuous? What right has a people to try those who call themselves apostles? And how do they try them? Oh, I love this.
    Here it is in Galatians 1:8,
    “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have (already) preached unto you, let him be accursed.”
    It was the apostles who brought the original Word to the people. That original Word could not change, not even a dot or dash of it. Paul knew it was God Who had spoken to him so he said, “Even if I come and try to give a second revelation, try to make one little change in what I gave originally, let me be accursed.” You see, Paul knew that first revelation was correct. God can’t give a first revelation, then a second revelation. If He did, He would be changing His mind. He can give a revelation and then add to it, as He did in the Garden of Eden when He promised the Seed to the woman, and then later designated that Seed had to come through Abraham, and then later said it would come by the same blood lines in David. But it was the same revelation. It only gave the people more information to help them receive and understand it.
    But God’s Word can’t change. The Seed came exactly as revealed. Hallelujah. And see what those false apostles were doing. They came with their own word. Those Ephesians knew that Word as Paul had taught it. They were full of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of Paul’s hands. They looked those false apostles in the eye and said, “You are not saying what Paul said. You are, therefore, false.” Oh, that sets my heart on fire. Get back to the Word! It is not you that really tries the apostle, and prophet and teacher, IT IS THE WORD THAT TRIES THEM.
    One of these days there is going to come a prophet to the Laodicean Church Age and you will know if he is the real one sent from God or not. Yes you will, for if he is of God HE WILL BE IN THAT WORD EXACTLY AS GOD GAVE IT TO PAUL. HE WON’T DEVIATE FROM THAT WORD FOR A MOMENT, NOT BY ONE IOTA. In that last age, when there will be many false prophets appearing, watch and see how they keep telling you that if you don’t believe them and what they say, you will be lost; but when that LAST DAY PROPHET comes on the scene, if he is truly that prophet, he will be crying out, “Get back to the Word or you are lost.” He won’t build on a private revelation or interpretation, but on the Word. Amen, and Amen!

  37. Madiba says:

    [Just in case someone misses this at the top.]

    Shalom Shalom,

    I am surprised that you do not deem it necessary to involve Ed Byskal’s colleagues in this matter. Look at the qoute below then you will see that the prophet indicated that ministers in the Message are colleagues, and I thought that Ed Byskal’s colleagues should have been involved.

    Taking Sides With Jesus
    743-3 It was purposed tonight, I thought, as I had a–a dinner not long ago with our most beloved pastor, Brother Neville, and I was saying something to him what was on my heart. And I thought if we get a bunch of men together and the ministers (They’re our colleagues here of the Gospel and men.), we could talk to one another in a way that we wouldn’t talk it before the public, because we’re all and–we’re men that understand as men, Christian men. And that way… Usually in a congregation, a group, you say something, and–and one’ll lean it a little this way, and one’ll lean it that way, and–and then it goes all out. But where we come to try tonight to tell you what I have in my heart of, concerning the church and its a–and its place and its position.
    762-82 Now, I think this church… If you men would, when you build this church, make this like your headquarters and like Brother Neville here being like the senior elder among you. See? And sometimes you get a question that you can’t discuss out with your church out there, then bring it in here to Brother Neville and you all discuss it together. If there–you can’t come to any decision, I’ll be coming by pretty soon, then we’ll all come together with it.

    You need to know that Ed Byskal is an Elder not only of CBW but in the message community, and under his ministry church were established across the globe and I am of the view that you owe the Message community an explination. You can try to hide behind many qoutations but the fact remains that the pastors who were ordained by Bro. Ed need answers from you.

    When you look at the below quote then you will see that the Cloverdale Bibleway Church is part of the Bride, and that Ed Byskal has colleagues in the ministry as senior pastors in their respective assemblies.

    65-1125 THE.INVISIBLE.UNION.OF.THE.BRIDE.OF.CHRIST_ SHREVEPORT.LA V-2 N-15 THURSDAY_

    10 Now I want to pass greetings on down the line, to the churches now that’s hooked up across the state. We’re on the telephone hookup, which is a fine little system that we have been able to get, through our Brother Pearry Green from Beaumont, Texas. And the churches, completely, that’s following the Message , all the way across the United States, is hooked up, tonight. We send greetings, up and down the West Coast, all the way from Vancouver down to Tijuana, Mexico, through San Jose, Los Angeles. All the groups over in there, we greet you from Shreveport. Also, all the way to Prescott, Arizona, to the group up there that’s waiting on the Lord, we send greetings to you, and to Tucson, also Sierra Vista. All the way to New York, up and down, across the nation, the Lord bless you, each one. Wish you were here, tonight, this beautiful old state of Louisiana, where it seems like a second home, to me. I…

    I believe that our church is included in this statement as well as any other message church.

    NB: You have accused me on making up assumptions but need to remind you that you not in a position to answer my questions unless you were a part of CBW and left for the LWF. If my assumption that you are part of the group is incorrect then I beg you not answer something you don’t know and this will allow people like Bro. Gary to respond.

    Bro. Gary: You promised to provide answers to the questions that I have raised and Shalom Shalom is welcome to comment but not to distract us from the main issue, which is:

    DID LFW ELDERS SEEK AN OUTSIDE HELP IN THAT TIME OF DISTRESS? DID THEY INVITE ANY PASTOR TO COME AND MEDIATE IN THEIR DISAGREEMENT WITH ED BYSKAL? IF THERE A PASTOR, WILL THAT PASTOR TESTIFY ON A PUBLIC PLATFORM THAT HE INDEED TRIED TO MEDIATE AND ED BYSKAL REFUSED TO COOPERATE? THE INVOLVEMENT OF THE PASTOR SHOULD NOT HAVE JUST BEING LIMITED TO THE PRIVATE E-MAILS AND CALLS WITHOUT THE INVOLVEMENT OF OTHER PARTIES. WAS YOUR DEPARTURE OVERSEEN BY ANY PASTOR?

    I guess for the mere fact that you mentioned that some pastors were contacted this on its own shows that if the board and pastor are at loggerheads then a senior neutral pastor should brought into the picture [I have provided a quote for this angle]

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Brother Madiba,

      All I am saying is you are making requirements that are not in the Word of God to maintain your position of favoritism of personalities. His colleagues consisting of ministers were involved; however, you claim that isn’t good enough because you don’t think they were pastors of large enough congregations to you.

      You have not answered my question nor shown me one quote or Scripture that requires what you demand of the saints, and you totally ignored the quote where Bro Branham said “ It is not you that really tries the apostle, and prophet and teacher, IT IS THE WORD THAT TRIES THEM.”

      Your level of understanding states that because the pope claims he is above everyone (including the Word) he is above the Word. That’s denominational seed. Is this something you learned in the seminary that you are falling back on instead of trusting in the Word.

      Those who think they are above listening to the Word because the vessel it comes through isn’t good enough for them are just like Balaam refusing to listen to the Word that came though a donkey. You think it was perfectly okay for Balaam to refuse the Word just because the Word came though a vessel that was beneath him (literally). If a man will not listen to the Word in one vessel, it is an indication that man will not listen to the Word no matter what vessel the Word comes though especially when that individual is out for money and popularity like Balaam was. Instead of listening to the Word Balaam wanted to find a way around it and still get his own way. You are doing the same thing by claiming nothing is good enough for you on this blog. When things are done exactly according to the Word, you claim it isn’t good enough unless additional requirements that isn’t in the Word is also performed.

      You need to go back and listen to the Hebrews series again and pay attention to what Bro Branham said about each church being sovereign and it is the congregation that decides if the pastor continues on when he gets caught doing things wrong. This was totally circumvented in the case, and the congregation was kept totally ignorant of the offense contrary to the Word of God. However, you think this is perfectly okay.

      You want to deny what is supposed to happen according to the Word and require denominational rituals of calling in district presbyters contrary to the Word, so you can have your cake and eat it too. That’s nothing but political maneuvering.

      PS I don’t know who NB is, so you’ll have to clarify yourself with that statement.

      • childofGod says:

        To ShalomShalom ,

        To answer to your question “However, where is their anointing taking you to. To serving a system, or serving the Lord?”

        The anointing is pointing them back to the faith of our fathers .
        I have no words to express what has been happening in that church , the Lord is moving among them .Am not trying to start a argument with you , but i know one thing God is using Bro Ed’s ministry and it’s greater than it’s ever been.
        Am just rejoicing over what God is doing among their young people ,their testimonies i mean i could go on and on .
        God bless you all

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Bro CG,

        I’m not discussing people. I am discussing precepts in the Word.

        Just because God used Pharaoh, and Pharaoh had an anointing from the Lord does not mean Pharaoh was taking the people he was trying to control back to the faith of the fathers. If a man is going contrary to the Word, how is that man obeying the Word?

        Remember my brother, we are not supposed live by bread alone, but by EVERY word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. So whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

        Remember the sermon preached in the morning of July 25th, 1965 declares that same anointing was on both the true vine and the false vine.

        And I heard a commercial on the Radio for Franklin Road Baptist Church purporting their youth as well, so go figure.

  38. Gary White says:

    Dear Bro Madiba

    I am trying find to out the facts, please be patient. I do know that Bro Ed said publicly several times from the pulpit that there is no one he can go to for council.
    I gave thouse names (pastores) because I know for a fact that the elders were wanting to bring them in if Bro Ed would agree.

    How ever Bro Shalom Shalom makes very excelent points concerning your demands.

    I look foward to meeting you in person even if you just come for a visit. I wont tell anybody you shoock my hand, your good reputation will be safe with me.

    God bless GW

  39. Gary White says:

    Bro Madiba

    The answere is yes, Bro Ed was aproached & asked if other pastoures could be brought in to help mediate in the situation, He was not interested, I dont dont know what his reasons could have been for not trying out the sugestion.

    I think your idea was the same with the elders of the group that was forced out of CBW. I think it was a good idea, but I dont know that you could make a doctrine out of it though.

    I apreciate your willingness to even consider the thought of acepting us in to your circle of felowship & of other saints arround the globe. How ever our main concern is that we are acepted in the Beloved & are pleasing to him.

    You have tried your best to hold me acountable for my belifes, actions & motives. I have tried to welcome your concerns & adress them. I have tried to do the same with CBW & will continue to do the same with you or any where else that I may worship. Not with the intent of being a trouble maker or complainer, but with the idea that we must hold each other accountable & thus insuring that I stay on the up & up as well as others.

    God Bless you all in South Africa Bro Gary W & family

  40. Madiba says:

    Shalom Bro. Gary,

    Please you should visit South Africa sometime and we surely will welcome you despite our disagreements. We should be mature enough to agree to disagree, and that should not make us less of believers.

    Thanks for being patient with us and understanding, and I know it has not been easy for you to stick your neck out. I guess you might have drawn negative attention from some sectors but I salute you that you did the best that you could even though you did not have all the details as you personally did not get involved. We appreciate that you the only one who came on board and declared your identity and probably took a reproach for your stance even though somewhat one could help but feel that you were
    not versed in the details.

    We appreciate that and continue in this battle and hope to meet beyond the curtain of time.

    Regards,

  41. Vincent says:

    Hello everyone,

    I have quickly read all these comments and I can’t help but to keep rolling my eyes and die of embarrassment the way some of you are behaving.

    Br. Gary, you are a very nice brother, and I like your attitude even though I don’t agree with some of the things that you say.

    What I think is the foundation of the problem is this:
    (1) There is genuine problems that concern everybody (everybody as in everybody in that church – not outside).
    (2) There is personal problems.

    (1) needs to be dealt with as a church, (2) needs to be dealt with individually with the individuals and issues that you have problems with. I believe MANY of the people that left are not able to make a clear separation between those 2. This results in the justification of their behavior who was caused by their own problems (2) by the general problems (1). I hope you get what I mean?

    So there’s many people who have personal problems (with e.g. br. Ed, his daughter, other ministers) that have NOTHING to do with the whole issue (2). So because of the events happening in (1) they blend (1) and (2) and feel very strong and justified that whatever decision they have made is right.

    How come when I talk to people, EVERY SINGLE person has a different reason for leaving?

    Br. Gary, you already left before the church split and started your own little group? Why? One of the reasons is because you didn’t like the person playing the piano and had general problems with the music (which is why there are no drums at LWF right now – and trust me they will come at some point).

    Now back to my point.
    (1) has to be dealt with the biblical way. This was not done the right way, NOR by CBW, NOR by the people leaving. The bible said if there is a problem let it be brought before the church with 2 witnesses. It didn’t say let it be brought before the church if the pastor agrees? Why were there no men in your church standing up and truly bringing this problem before the church and then dealing with it and solving it as a church???? No, instead everything had to happen behind the scenes in a sneaky way with a top secret document?

    Excuse me? Where does it say if there is a problem address the pastor with a top secret document? Every single man that signed that document was wrong. And they knew very well it was wrong and not biblical (show me in the bible or message this is the way to do things)? So by signing that document they automatically signed themselves out of church. There was no more option but to leave, because it is 100% wrong and cannot be discussed otherwise.

    Even when br. Ed didn’t agree to bring it before the church, you could have very easily done it. And if you told him with all the brethren “we are going to present this before the church on Sunday, because that’s the biblical way” he would have had to react. None of this was done…

    Yes, the mistake was made in the past. Yes it was wrong. Yes it was dealt with wrong. Yes the pulpit was misused. But also YES, they dealt with the problem in the wrong way (wrong way as in logical business way – but not scriptural). Then you are surprised that the document had no results?

    I know a church where the pastor lived in adultery and the people found out. They didn’t leave, no sir. The elders went to the front with the witness and laid it all open before the church. Then they voted, and they voted the pastor out… Now did the pastor want them to bring it before the church or vote? NO. But they were man enough to do it! The church of course was hurt and some people left because of disappointment in the man. But 90% of the people stayed and there was no church split! And now they’re stronger than ever before!

    Now read your church order book. That’s how Brother Branham clearly instructed it. Suppose the pastor would have repented and the people vote for him to stay, then the other people need to accept that. And if you don’t, then just leave in silence go to another church and stay quiet. Don’t keep listening to their services to see what they have to say. What does it matter anyways? You left!

    (2) Using the general problem to justify personal problems. If you have personal problems with individuals, how things are done, what is said, etc. Then go to the person who you have problems with and deal with it. That is also the only biblical way to go about it. Not going to the person and talking behind their backs and criticizing, etc. is NOT RIGHT. And the reason many people have the freedom to do this now, is because there’s many people who left and have problems with certain things. But that is because of the general problems (1). For example many teenagers who need to have an experience with God (I could name names, but I won’t) have problems with stuff and criticize things. Those are personal problems. In a “normal” situation their parents with be telling them to stop it. But because of the general problem (1) it now is all OK, their parents won’t correct them and even add to it, because they too are suffering and mixing their personal problems (2) with the general problem (1).

    My conclusion is that the things that happened were so wrong, but the way it was dealt with by the deacons and trustees was just as wrong. You don’t solve problems that way, and I believe the foundation of the problem is that you tried to solve this as if it was a business. This could be due to the influence of a certain individual-songleader who wrote the document. This is a church, property of God, and it is not dealt with like you would do in a business!! It is dealt with in a Biblical way! And that was not done.

    Added to that, the whole leave happened in a sneaky way. Nobody knew who was leaving… Now how could that be Godly? You want to leave and be respect? At least leave like a man, and not a coward. Go to your (former) pastor and say “I want to leave for this and this reason. Thank you for your years of ministry, I love and respect you but I just don’t agree with you and feel I have to leave. Please pray for me as I will be praying for you.” Now this is the way it happened with group that left with R. Smith many years ago. There were no major fights and I don’t know what like it was now happening. They were even supported to help start their own church. At least they were man enough to say why they were leaving instead of just sneaking out through the back door.

    Also, when you leave, why do you need to keep talking about it? Didn’t you leave to move on with life and with God? So why don’t you leave behind what you left? WHY do you need to keep commenting and keep listening to services what they have to say about you? And why do you have to keep justifying yourself? Why do you have to defend your point over and over again? Why do you have to give information to a blogger so that the whole problem (1) can be made public to the whole world while it is a local church problem that has to be dealt with locally? Could it be to also justify personal (2) problems?

    Tsannings blog is wrong, there’s no discussion about that. Those of you that take their hats off for her, shame on you. Your own pastor has condemned the blog!

    This leads to another question. Isn’t every message church sovereign? Then why did another church get majorly involved (a church from AZ)? Why did the pastor of that church give advice to the people that wanted to leave and encourage to start their own church? Isn’t this high level church politics? If churches start getting involved in each others problems? Then maybe we should elect a church to be the head of all message churches so they can make decisions for everyone? A message pope? Shame on us!!

    ==> My final though. CBW was a church that the whole (message) world looked upon. They had the best musicians, the best choir, a nice building, famous songleader, good singers, good preachers, many preachers, good ministry. And the people that went there knew it very well! Anywhere you would travel in the world to a message church and you’d say “Im from CBW” they’d say wow, that is nice. And even the more if you were in the choir or had family member that was some important person.
    Don’t you think that people were getting a bit proud? Don’t you think it was getting to the point of “I have need of nothing” and people were feeling way to comfortable? I think this pride was standing in between God and the people? So maybe God said, let me test them to see what they really are like… I will take … this person and this one (persons high up the rank) to make this and this mistake. Let me see how My people will react now… And what did we see??
    Well I’m embarrassed for us. I’m afraid to say that we’ve greatly failed…

    But God rich in mercy has humbled us all, no matter what side we are now going to, we are humbled and hurt. And I believe it was necessary… Because look at the preaching and the quality of the spirit in both churches. I believe God is working on both “sides”…

    I please want to ask you to not reply to my post. I don’t mean to post it to bring a new discussion or to get a reaction. I just wanted to publicly ask some questions that concern us all. So please again, if you want to react to my post or anything, don’t. I won’t be responding to it anymore… What I wish at the moment is that Tsannings blog would be closed AND this one after that and that we could just move on with our lives, and stop discussing about this all. Because you have already seen that discussing doesn’t help us one bit further…

    God bless and may God have mercy upon us for our immature behavior. Pray for our kids and young adults that have to go through this at a very delicate point in their lives.

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Bro Vincent,

      Are you a psychology student? That’s all I saw in your post. I didn’t see you basing your thoughts on the Word. I only saw you basing it on what felt good to you.

      If a brother or sister has a Biblical concern which has to do with trying to get an elder or someone in an higher office than himself to follow the Word, you don’t bypass him and blast him over the pulpit. That’s the very reason some were offended. They were being blasted with quotes taken out of context to apply to a situation being handled like the Word said they were to be handled. Yes, it is different if the preacher was poking someone he’s not married to, but that wasn’t the case here.

      I have gathered on one of these blogs the offending pastor asked for a letter? Do you know this not to be true? If it is true, how does that support your stance?

      On an unrelated case where a minister was refusing to let the process of Matthew 18:15-22 be followed (he deliberately split his pastor’s church and later intentionally spread untruthful things about him) a brother was advised by a well known and respected pastor (not from AZ) to do exactly what you claim is not the correct thing to do.

      If a man is like Gaddafi, there isn’t a snowball’s chance on a hot day that you will have the opportunity to reach the last step in Mt 18:15-18. They’ll murder you first. There’s more than one way to kill a man according to the Message.

      • Vincent says:

        Well then, if a psychology student can see that splitting churches is wrong, how much more a Christian?

        Yes, a pastor from AZ was involved (and his associate left partially because of that), and a minister from Edmonton… So I call that high level “message” politics. And I want to get as far away from that kinda behavior as I can because that’s starting to look a lot like denominationalism to me.

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Again brother

        You are not basing your conclusions on the Word. You are only basing them on what feels good to you. Your psychology mind is leading you to erroneous conclusions, for if splits were wrong, then you would die. Your blood cells splits in your body in order for you to have life. If the blood cells never split, you would have never made it out of the womb. It is the wrong kind of splits that are bad. It is the splits that are contrary to the Word that are cancerous. Psychology will lead you to call a healthy body cancerous and a cancerous body healthy.

        When you do that, you are condemning Polycarp for separating himself from the first church of Rome and leaving Ephraim to his idols (CAB). You are condemning a lot of the churches started overseas which came out of their denominational systems in order to follow the Present Day Word. You are condemning Bro Branham for leaving Bro Roy Davis church and starting another one in the area. You are condemning Bro Branham for the church he started in Miltown and most of the congregation which came out of the other church condemning proper water baptism to be baptized correctly. You are condemning Jesus Christ for leading His disciples out of the Pharisees and Saducees. You are condemning the Seventh Church Age Messenger for leading a Bride out of the Church.

        And by the way, my question was, “do you know that the pastor in question did not ask to have the letter written?” It wasn’t about AZ. Why did you ignore my question just to post a political response to my post?

      • Vincent says:

        I’m kinda lost ShalomShalom… You’re in support of splits? What are you splitting from?

      • ShalomShalom says:

        No I am not. I’m just against the naivety that causes some to ignorantly condemn Polycarp for separating himself from the first church of Rome and leaving Ephraim to his idols (CAB), a lot of the churches started overseas which came out of their denominational systems in order to follow the Present Day Word, Bro Branham for leaving Bro Roy Davis church and starting another one in the area, Bro Branham for the church he started in Miltown and most of the congregation which came out of the other church condemning proper water baptism to be baptized correctly, Jesus Christ for leading His disciples out of the Pharisees and Saducees, and the Seventh Church Age Messenger for leading a Bride out of the Church.

        The question I have is why do individuals condone and endorse a church split which was contrary to the Word in a different area when they think they will receive money from them, but condemn something that was done according to the Word in their own area? Isn’t that hypocritical?

    • Private says:

      In my travels I was given a great compliment when i was told i didn’t act like i was from cloverdale. So glad my salvation isnt thru a church, its thru a person, and that person isnt a pastor. Its thru my saviour.

  42. Theendtime says:

    Shalomshalom are a certain minister who preaches in Washington ? this sounds your language, you sound like a minister, That is missusing the quotes. And if it is you, please don’t comment on this because you’re not the one to be judging. I don’t wanna name you but I am 90 percent sure this is you , I know your language towards Cbw and i can’t help but acknowledge that this is you . Please brother deal with you own issues !!!

    • ShalomShalom says:

      No sir, that’s not me.

      I really don’t know who you are referring to, but since I’ve never preached in Washington, I’m 100% sure I’m not him.

      God Bless You,

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Brothers and Sisters,

        Look at the pure denominational spirit that is portrayed by the individual voting negatively / positively to a simple answer to a simple question.

        That just goes to show that there are people on here that could care less about the Word or the Truth. All they care about is supporting their denomination even if that denomination is contrary to the Word.

        It reminds me of the story a precious minister brother told he had with someone whose pastor fell in the sin of adultery. The person said something along the lines of, “I don’t care how many times my pastor falls in sin or commits adultery, I’m going to stay with him because I love him and he’s ordained to lead me though.” Shame on such a spirit of unbelief in God’s Holy Word.

        Just a thought
        **smiles**

  43. Gary White says:

    Bro Vincent

    Where were you when we needed you? Seriously though I dont know if there was any easy anweres for Bro Ed or for the group that was forced to leave.

    Its easy for us to sit back & become monday morning quarterbacks, especialy when we sit back & play it safe & not get involved with whats right & wrong.

    SIN split the church no one else.

    May I now be alowed to roll my eyes back at you for a minute.

    I & others have poured out our hart on this site, we have expresed our concerns & opinions.

    NOW YOU HAVE DONE THE SAME, How is it that you can condem us for doing it but some how its ok for you to do it??? You have made a law for us to follow yet your not willing to follow it your self.

    You make staments that are untrue (Arizona, my own group, dislikeing the piano player) etc then request silence from every one. THATS EXACTLY WHAT WE ENDURED AT CBW.

    If you feel to repent for your imature behavior thats your choice. Please dont include me in your convictions.
    Have you confirmed your acusation about the Az pastour? I have & its not true.

    I have opened myself up for cross examination with every thing I have said. If you arent willing to do the same then it might be best to continue to play it safe & not coment.

    When Bro Branham was going to be exposed by the FBI in TEXAS every one on his team became very nervouse, every one acept Bro Branham. WHY? because he had nothing to hide. He invited the FBI to come forward on to the platform. Thats the kind of pastour every message church needs. And I hope that will be the results that will come out of the split. Then our suffuring & misery will have not been in vain.

    THE DAYS OF PAY, PRAY & OBEY ARE OVER FOR THIS BRIDE MEMBER. I will try to not look down on you if you dont share the same revelation & I hope you will have the same courtesy for me.

    God bless you Bro GW

  44. Vincent says:

    Ok Brother you are right. Just ignore all I said… I shouldn’t have said it the way I did.
    I just want God to move in our lives no matter what church it is… CBW or LWF or DLT.
    Personally I just want to leave this whole debate of whether the split is right or not behind and just move on with God. Because discussing this isn’t gonna help us anything closer to God or in the rapture. I love you Brother Gary.
    Please pray for me as I pray for you. God bless.

  45. Gary White says:

    Dear bro Vincent

    I know this whole thing is very hard to deal with & to grasp, to me it can get very complicated. I am in total harmoney with your idea of everybody wanting to go on with life & the Lord.

    I give Bro Ed a f- in his report card for his part in insuring this wont hapen. As you said as a rule I dont listen to the services at CBW. As a rule I rejoice with you when I hear of any good thing hapening at CBW.

    I must also realise that not every body at LWF shares my feelings toward CBW. The BIG DIFFERENCE between the 2 groups is that the insults & cursings come directly from the sacreed desk at CBW. These are ofical consistant bashings shown over the internet ie ( as our young people will be in the world in 6 months) etc.

    Now what has been our ofical word from behind the sacred desk at LWF? forget it, dont respond, stay off of Tsanings blog if any of you are on it. etc.

    I would like to recomend a litle experiment for you, aproach the leadership at CBW & tell them how disapointed you are with the way they are slandering us. Do what apparently none other of these great ministers (freinds) of Bro Eds are willing to do.

    Be A GOOD FREIND TO BRO ED & TELL HIM THE TRUTH. I am sory to say that you will quickly find yourself branded as a enemy to GOD. I hope I am wrong but thats seem to be the norm there.

    My point is this; if we realy want to help ensure peace & brotherly kindness in the future then we have to take action today & speak up, I will try to do my part on my end & you must do your part on your end. We may fail but we will be able to boldly approach the throne one day & say we did our best.

    If I were in a church & did not feel I had the LIBERTY to sweatly approach my pastour & express my concerns that are based on the Word, then I proably want to move on, respectivly like Bro Madiba sugest.

    Let me say how much I apreciate you telling me that you love me, As you can well imagine thats not something that I get to hear to often. I really belive you mean it, & I feel the same way towards you. We know only perfect love will enter there & I feel you have expressed here.

    The Lord be with you my freind GW

  46. Brother Gary,

    Let us stop these accusations and move on with our lives. No matter what’s been said every issue has a context and if you compare LWF and CBW then the analysis thereof are bound to be a sucbject of contention due to the nature of its subjectivity depending on which side you are in.
    I guess analysing the CBW services will just bring you to a subjective conclusion.

    Let us seek the Lord’s will through prayer and remember what the prophet said, “you will not wish even worst enemy to go to hell”.

    God bless you

  47. fred says:

    It’s simple.

    Tsanning allowed people to comment on her webiste
    and then Tsanning went and deleted some comments
    andthen, unbelievably, Tsanning deleted ‘parts’ of comments
    which you just don’t do. if you delete parts of a comment
    like Tsanning did, you can change the whole meaning of the comment.

    Tsanning should never be trusted.

    .

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Bro Fred,

      I haven’t seen anyone endorsing the actions of sis T Sanning.

      She was in the wrong place at the wrong time and stepped out of her place with information she should have never obtained.

      I agree that she should not have removed huge portions of others writtings. If she was going to post the letter, she should have posted the whole thing instead of just the portion she liked.

      I know the reason you don’t much care for her is because your old pastor done you wrong, but remember the saying.

      The enemy of your enemy isn’t always your friend.

      Likewise, the friend of your enemy isn’t always your enemy.

      You have no idea what others have been told in order to do what they have done.

      If I have been told some of the stuff others have heard about me, I probably wouldn’t like me either. Turn the other cheek my friend.

      I have been told by some who have withstood me the most in the past that the reason they did it was because they didn’t know the man saying those things against me were deliberately twisting the facts until he did the same thing to them.

      It is never the person we are to be against. It is the spirit behind the thing that is wrong.

  48. fred says:

    Nope. Wrong.

    I don’t like Tsanning because, to allow ‘some’ comments,
    and to delete ‘other’ comments, and then to have the nerve to actually
    go and delete ‘parts of comments’ is a really bad thing to do. It’s crooked.
    Either delete ALL comments or delete NO comments. Take your choice.
    It’s like worship God OR money. Take your choice. But not both.

    It’s also bad to have a forum, and then suddenly STOP a person half way through a debate, by simply banning him without an explanation.
    It’s not fair and it’s not good.

    I still remember how Tsanning went onto that ‘forum’ and really made
    fools out of those guys, be ‘pretending’ to be a little girl who is seriously
    curious about bible and Christian things, and at one time she even said ‘Waaa my head hurt’ from all these complicated statements, and I remember how those guys at the forum attacked Eddy B – when all along Tsanning was making them into fools.
    All along, Tsanning was concentrating on Google, and getting her info spread around.

    Not all the people on that forum got made into fools by Tsanning. But some did.
    They believed every word she said, without even questioning.

    .

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Yes, you are correct, some were duped.

      The discussion you are talking about being stopped was one concerning issues with members in the former church you attended in the past.

      However, if you care to go back and refresh your memory on the thread TSanning originated, you will see things were alot different after I entered the discussion. Granted, the one you felt done you wrong in the past swallowed up anything negative he could concerning those he held a grudge against for not reading a testimony of a miricle he wanted them to read concerning trip he made without the use of gas. (The miricle of driving the car without the use of gas ended when they manifested their unbelief by trying to put more gas in the car to test to see if they were actually driving without gas or if their gas gage was broke.) It was also this same individual who couldn’t wait to spill the beans on what else he knew negatively concerning those he could less care for. He did not have enough spiritual discernment to know when to shut his mouth. Others have had that same problem on here in the past.

      You will also remember that I too was banned for withstanding the spirit that preacher was manifesting on that forum.

      You see? Then people in ignorance wants to open a blog and start blasting innocent people and acusse them of things they didn’t do just because they think along the lines of politics instead of along the lines of the Word.

      However, I have nothing against the brothers on that forum. They mean well even if I don’t always agree with how they do things.

  49. fred says:

    I have another theory of my own about ‘why’ all this ‘attacking’
    is going on, but it’s just a theory so I should keep my mouth shut.

    But here is a story to think about. One year my apple crop was perfect.
    Better than perfect. Every apple on all the trees were beautiful and fancy.
    I had a native indian friend, back then. He was talking to me once about
    how he was a little bit bitter about the way the ‘white man’ religion took
    him away from his parents when he was a kid. And while he was telling me those things, I was thinking how much better our Christian religion is, than his worshipping of spirits and things like that. So I was able to look in some of the bins of apples he grew, because also had an orchard, and they were horrible. Hail. It was a disaster. It looked like a horrible plague, had destroyed his crop. And I knew 100% for sure, that God had given me the most perfect fruit ever, because I’m a good Christian, and the bible is God’s word, and this native indian friend of mine got cursed with the ugliest looking crop in history, because he was bitter against God, and bitter against the white man’s religion. I knew that. I was positive.

    So the next year, my apple crop got hit with a plague called apple scab. The whole crop was pretty much wasted. it looked just the same as being hailed. It looks ugly – black spots on the apples, which make them unmarketable. I drove down to take a look at that friend of mine’s orchard, and what I saw shocked me. His apple cop was perfect. But even worse, his trees were wll managed – he was a good farmer, he knew what he was doing. So then I was puzzled. I’m the guy reading my bible, and I got the horrible crop, and he believes in his spirits, and his crop was perfect.

    So the meaning of the story is this: I don’t think humans will ever be totally sure about what God is doing.

    .

  50. fred says:

    so while Tsanning and her attack partner, over on that forum, felt 100%
    positive that God was on their side when they went berzerk with the attacks
    against EB, based on ‘second hand information,’ Christians everywhere feel
    equally 100% positive that we are the only true best religion in the world. While
    we attacked millions of foreign children with depleted uranium, and many of us Christians seem to think God gave us the go-ahead to do this, based on the old testament,
    (personally, I’d go with ‘thou shalt not kill’ if I’m going to choose something from the old testament) so we think we can give those foreigners depleted uranium, and now, there is radiation in Washington state milk, and probably a lot many more places across Canada and USA.

    I remember hearing in church, it’s not so important how good you are, but that you believe in Jesus. I’m thinking it’s very important how good you are. And still believe in Jesus.

    .

  51. ShalomShalom says:

    Works Is Faith Expressed.

    Jam 2:14 ¶ What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
    Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
    Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?
    Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
    Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
    Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
    Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
    Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
    Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    Jam 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?
    Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

  52. fred says:

    That scripture where God told Abraham to kill his son reminded me of another scripture in the bible, where a really good guy did almost nothing wrong, named Job, and the bible says the devil walked up to God and said, ‘Hey how ya doin, can you give me permission to torment Job?’

    This scripture bothers me a little bit, because the bible says God said ‘Sure no problem – go right ahead and torment Job.’

    I do not believe God would talk to the devil casually, and give him the ‘go-ahead’ to do bad things. If I was God, I’d give a lightning bolt to the devil right there on the spot, and finish him off.

    • ShalomShalom says:

      SMYRNAEAN.CHURCH.AGE – CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.4 (page 115-119)

      Conditions Of The Age

      Revelation 2:9, “I know thy works and thy tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.”

      The key to this age is most evidently tribulation. If there was tribulation in the first age, there is now predicted an intensified tribulation throughout the second age. There is no doubt but what the following words of Paul applied to the mass of Christians wherever they were in the world and in every age. Hebrews 10:32-38, “But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and He That shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.”

      The mere association of kindhearted people with the true believer might well bring death in return for their kindness.

      Now the Lord God Almighty says, “I KNOW.” There He is walking in the midst of His people. There He is, the Chief Shepherd of the flock. But does He hold back the persecution? Does He stem the tribulation? No, He does not. He simply says, “I KNOW your tribulation–I am not at all unmindful of your suffering.” What a stumbling block this is to so many people. Like Israel they wonder if God really loves them. How can God be just and loving if He stands by and watches His people suffer? That is what they asked in Malachi 1:1-3, “The burden of the Word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi. I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet we say, Wherein hast Thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.” You see, they could not figure out God’s love. They thought that love meant no suffering. They thought that love meant a baby with parental care. But God said that His love was “elective” love. The proof of His love is ELECTION–that no matter what happened, His love was proven truly by the fact they were chosen unto salvation (because God hath chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth). He may commit you to death as He did Paul. He may commit you to suffering as He did Job. That is His prerogative. He is sovereign. But it is all with a purpose. If He did not have a purpose, then He would be the author of frustration and not of peace. His purpose is that after we have suffered awhile we would be made perfect, be established, strengthened and settled. As Job said, “He puts strength in us.” (Job 23:6b) You see He, Himself, suffered. He learned obedience by the things that He suffered. He was actually made perfect by the things that He suffered. Hebrews 5:8-9, “Though He were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He suffered; And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him.” In plain language, the very character of Jesus was perfected by suffering. And according to Paul He has left His church a measure of suffering that they, too, by their faith in God while suffering for Him, would come to a place of perfection. Why did He want this? James 1:2-4, “My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.”

      Why does He stand by? The reason is in Romans 8:17-18, “And if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” Unless we suffer with Him we cannot reign with Him. You have to suffer to reign. The reason for this is that character simply is never made without suffering. Character is a VICTORY, not a gift. A man without character can’t reign because power apart from character is Satanic. But power with character is fit to rule. And since He wants us to share even His throne on the same basis that He overcame and is set down in His Father’s throne, then we have to overcome to sit with Him. And the little temporary suffering we go through now is not worthy to be compared to the tremendous glory that will be revealed in us when He comes. Oh, what treasures are laid up for those who are willing to enter into His kingdom through much tribulation.

      “Think it not strange concerning the fiery trials that are to try you.” That is what Peter said. Is it strange that God wants us to develop a Christ-like character that comes through suffering? No sir. And we all have trials. We are all tried and chastened as sons. Not one but goes through that. The church that is not suffering, and is not being tried, hasn’t got it–it isn’t of God. Heb. 12:6, “For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth. But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.”

      Now this special condition in Smyrna must be applied to every age. There is no age free from it. There is no true believer free from it. This is of God. This is the will of God. It is needful. We need the Lord to teach us the truth that we are to suffer and be Christ-like in doing it. “Love suffereth long and is kind.” Matthew 5:11-12, “Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for My sake. Rejoice and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”

      The cloudy skies and storms of life are no signs of God’s disapproval. Neither are bright skies and still waters signs of His love and approval. His approval of any of us is only IN THE BELOVED. His love is elective which He had for us before the foundation of the world. Does He love us? Ah yes. But how shall we know? We shall know because He SAID SO, and manifested that He did love us for He brought us to Himself and gave us of His Spirit, placing us as sons. And how shall I prove my love to Him? By believing what He said, and by conducting myself with joy amidst the trials that He in His wisdom allows to come to pass.

      “I know thy poverty (but thou are rich).” There it is again. See Him walking up and down in the midst of His Church. Like a father He is looking down upon His family. He is the Head of His household. He is the provider. He is the protector. Yet He looks on at their poverty. Oh, how the untutored believer stumbles at this. How can God bear to look upon His own in a time of need and not just stop it all–just give in and lavish everything material upon them?

      Here is where you have to believe again in the love, and goodness and wisdom of God. This, too, is needful. Remember He admonished, “Take no thought for the morrow, what ye shall eat or what ye shall put on. Your Father knoweth the things ye have need of. He Who clothes the lily and feeds the sparrow shall do much more for you. These physical things are not the true basic necessities of your life, for a man’s life consisteth not of the things he possesses. But rather seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all material necessities will be added unto you.” The people of God are not material minded. They are Christ-minded. They do not seek the treasures that are below; they seek those above. It is absolutely true, the majority of Christians are NOT wealthy. Rather they are on the poor side. It was so in Jesus’ day. It was true in Paul’s day and it should be true today. Oh, it is not too true today for the Laodicean Age is one of vast wealth where often the criterion of spirituality is an abundance of earthly goods. My, how rich the church is in goods. But how poor in Spirit. “Blessed be ye poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is NOT meat and drink.” It is not material. It is WITHIN us. A rich man is rich in God, not in worldly things.

      “Oh,” cries the Spirit, “I see your poverty. I see your need. You haven’t very much, if anything, to boast of. What you did have has been taken from you. You gladly gave up your possessions in exchange for eternal ones. You are laughed at. You are scorned. You don’t have material resources to fall back on. But you are rich in spite of it all. Your security lies in Him Who is your shield and exceeding great reward. Your kingdom is yet to come. But it will come. And it will be an everlasting one. Yes, I am mindful of your trials and woes. I know how hard it is to get along. But I will remember all this when I return to claim you as My own, and then I will reward you.”

      Now this is nothing against rich people because God can save a rich man. Some of God’s children are rich. But money can be such a snare, not only to those who have it but to those who don’t have it. Way back there in the first age, James cried out to those who were putting stock in wealthy people, “Have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ with respect of persons.” The poor there were trying to butter up the rich in order to get help, rather than trusting in God. “Don’t do it,” says James. “Don’t do it. Money isn’t everything. Money isn’t the answer.” And today it is not the answer either. We have more wealth than we have ever had and yet less is being accomplished Spiritually. It is not with money that God works. He moves by His Spirit. And that moving of the Spirit comes only to a life consecrated to the Word.

  53. fred says:

    Everyone likes money. I like money myself. I guess I like money a lot. I would never preach, the way Bro Branham preached, suggesting it is somehow ‘good’ to give up your possessions in exchange for eternal ones. I would never say, like preachers everywhere say that: Money isn’t everything. Money isn’t the answer.

    Here’s why:
    Sitting in every church are certain people who like money, but to a bigger extreme than everyone else. These people, I think, worship money, where everyone else in church just like smoney a lot. These special people can attend church 1,000 consectutive Sundays, they can stand up and sing 5,000 hymns, they can read 10,000 scriptures, and say 10,000 prayers out loud, and then smile 100,000 times to 100,000 people while shaking their hand and saying ‘God bless you’ and these special people will still worship money. Telling them money isn’t the answer won’t amke any difference. But there are other people in church that seem to have the tendency to lose their money. I would tell them about the seven good years and the seven lean years, from the bible, and how important it is to keep your money. I work in agriculture and I saw it with my own eyes, seven good years, and then seven very bad years. So to tell someone that ‘money isn’t everything’ is actually wrong, when he is going to go through seven lean years. It’s much better to warn him, to save his money.

    I never heard the seven good and seven lean years preached in church before, Maybe because preachers are not in agriculture and don’t fully understand the importance of it. But that’s what I would preach. I would never suggest to someone, that God somehow likes it when he gives up his posessions.

    As for those special people sitting in every church in North America, who worship money – I would overturn every pew in the church if I caught them making business deals in church.

    .
    .

  54. Temba says:

    God richly bless you brothers.

    I have not read all of the comments posted here, so forgive me if my comment is a repetition. Here is something that seems intriguing. Brother Ed mentions that he treats everyone the same –be it a church member, his wife or even his own children. Now, I would like to assume that his daughter was not the only one that was involved in misdemeanors! So could our brother Gary (ex-deacon) tell us whether he treated those other cases differently? If he treated those cases the same, I would commend him for being a very honest man of God. And if that is the case, all those that left, only chose to leave due to this particular case just because it involved his own daughter! That, I feel, would be tainted with the evil one!

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Sister,

      Perhaps the advise ‘to read all the posts’ would be the best advise to give at this moment.

      There is no sense in probing just to try to find a loop hole to justify things which aren’t up to par with the Word.

      I have found over the years that many people remember things the way they wish they were instead of the way they really were.

      As Bro Fred pointed out in his last post, the best con men which dupe the most people are the con men which doesn’t seem to be con men. In otherwords they must seem trustworthy in order to gain your trust. If they don’t have your trust, they can’t con you.

  55. Temba says:

    I am actually a brother!
    And I feel it would have been good for you to answer my question instead of directing me to all the comments made by other people. Your answer would make me at least understand. Also, please don’t think I am looking for loop holes. I am based in Europe, so I am not privy to some of the things that you might know. So please try to understand.

    God bless

    • ShalomShalom says:

      I have no interest in debating you.

      However, if open sin is allowed on the platform contrary to the direct statements of the prophet, what would it matter if it was family or not that practiced this open sin and be allowed to stay on the platform and hold leadership positions that she/he has been abusing? …and confessed to abusing those under her/him by taking advantage of his/her authority figure? Then when attention is brought that this needs to be adressed acording to the Word, the responce is one of taking quotes out of context just to blast the ones Bro Branham calls the policemen of the church.

      If someone is willing to attack the saints of God just to allow a person with sin in their life which disqualifies them from holding a position to hold a postion, it doesn’t matter if they are willing to break the Word for a non-family member or not. If you are braking the Word, you are still anti-Word.

      If a brother was a minister and he did something that disqualified him from the ministry (see Marraige and Divorce), that does not mean he cannot be forgiven. Nor does it mean he cannot come back to church. It only means he can no longer preach or hold the office of a minister. Now if somebody is attacked for bringing this to the attention of someone letting the disqualified minister preach, the man doing the attacking is anti-Word. It doesn’t matter if the disqualified minister is family or not, he still shouldn’t be allowed to hold that position. The same applies to the other positions in the church as well. If a person is disqualified from the position (even though they are forgiven), they still shouldn’t hold a position that sets forth that kind of lifestyle before the people because it is a huge stumbling block. Some will think if brother or sister so and so can live that kind of sinful life and still remain on the platform, then the chuch must endorse that behavior and they will conduct themselves the same way. Do you remember what happened when Balaam taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel?

      • Temba says:

        I hear you my brother. I am not trying to debate you because I do not know bro. Ed’s version of the stories. I am mainly trying to understand. Thats all. My first point was mainly to provoke an explanation from brother Gary and none else. Hope you understand. I am not for or against anything that has been said by many, but I believe in the explanation that you have given because thats exactly the Word. So don’t take it as though I am against anyone.

  56. Temba says:

    Also, are you saying brother Ed perfectly fits in your statement:
    “the best con men which dupe the most people are the con men which doesn’t seem to be con men. In otherwords they must seem trustworthy in order to gain your trust. If they don’t have your trust, they can’t con you.”??

  57. Gary White says:

    Bro Temba

    Greetings my brother, I feel you are asking a good question, & I hope I can answere truethfully & acurately. Please remember that I still very much love bro Ed & the Saints at CBW.. Even though it may seem like a one way love affaire at times. Also remember I have not lost any skin in this game like the many family members who are related to the variouse victimes of sex abuse.

    A statement was made in a letter to bro Ed by the elders concerning his council that he gave to a Sr pastoure in a Arizona. The situation was that a bro had a position in the church, his wife was a so called beliver & she was un fauthfull to him. Bro Ed told the pastoure that this man should never be alowed to hold a position in the church again. A few years latter in CBW it is discoverd that a number of adultries take place (bro Eds family) in marriages where the brothers hold positions, not only did the guilty parties continue at there post but when the sex scandles are exposed, bro Ed refused to have them step down.

    I belive bro Ed tried to show grace to all guilty parties family or not. But it could be said that maybe the family got a little extra grace, Bro Ed did remind the people that he was a dady. Some times I am sure as a dady I could maybe guilty of the same temptations.

    Please bare with me in my folly. About one mo before the split I felt led to say a few things to bro Ed, I knew he was going through a tough time & wanted to be carefull to not add to his load of cares. I told him that in the hart of God was laying atributes that could of only been expressed after the sexual mis conduct of one woman (Eve) took place.

    I went on to sugest, what other thoughts are lying in the mind of God that could only manifest themselves after another ilicet afair of great magnitude takes place?

    May I say what I think these other thoughts are? As stated in my earlier post I/we began to humanise the Holy Ghost at CBW. Bro Ed bacame a sort of idol to us, we could hear from God & be blessed. The law of faith insures that in most all cases this will happen. The mother of a freind of mind from high school told me that she tried selling her house for 1 year with no luck at all. She went down to the convent & bought a small statue of Joseph, the nuns told her to bury it in her yard. In one weak her house sold. (law of faith)

    In the master piece message Bro Branham very much assures us that acording to the vision we (the Bride) would become influenced by denominations & get out of line.

    How is it that we in the message could have pedophilia in our midst? And then whats worse respond just like Rome does with cover ups, mis information, deniles etc??

    How is it that we in the message churches could be briming over with dominering sisters that rule many homes & then begine to exert there influence over the music ministries, choires etc Indirectly they begine to have a influence in the direction that the church is going. Christian rock, drums, the sis said they cant keep time with out having the rock & roll type drums in there midst. Funny how we did it it for many years with out them.

    So we get into internet live steaming gig. Now we have a persuit for exelence in our sound systems & video cameras. Special lighting needs present themselves because we want to produce a high quality experience for our many viewers from across the globe. These items come with a large cost. We need perhaps dozens of personell to run & operate & perfect these systems. We pay expert out side unbelivers to teach us where to put the lights, drums, acustics etc. Special mics are needed the list goes on.

    Now we need a church school. Oh no now we need a biger church school. We begin to pay mothers of children to leave there home so they can help the school out. Well we need to have fund raisers to suport the school. We sell candy bars, we collect wiskey bottles to exchange for cash, we have picknicues, GOLF tournaments with special give away prizes. Special auctions are held. The saints begin to clamour for positions in conection with these worth while events. Many meetings are held each month so that we can come up with new ideas on how to bring in more money.

    Summer camps for the youth are created. We realy dont have the facilities to handle such an affaire, so we buy our own camp, of cousre many hours of laboure & 100s of thousands of dollars are required to keep this buiseness afloat. Again sis are incouraged to leave there homes & earn a living while cooking & cleaning for the variouse church groups that come to rent our facilities. Next we get a winter camp & then friday night youth meetings. non stop programs.

    The church of living God begines to take on a kind of comunity & activity center for its many needs. Christmass skits & plays are a big production at the camps & in the school.

    Men of vision; was organised to try to help send money & clouthing to the needy.

    Big Salries are paid out to the ministers, CBW begines to grow & expand & becomes very succesfull & popular, soon its the place to be. To many we became the envy of the world.

    Slowly big college degrees were encouraged, mansion type homes were sought after & persued by the saints. etc

    Now back to my original question, how do we as the Bride begin to look & act so much like the denominations?? Reverse Nicolatisim was preached at CBW many years ago by a bro from Arizona. He said the congregation begines to lift up the ministry out side of its God ordained positions. Soon the pastours word is the absolute, THE CHURCH BEGINS TO GLORIFY HER SELF ABOVE GOD. She is popular, sucessfull,beautifull.

    I very much belive that the LORD had a much more deeper concern for His Bride than the many sins that were comited. I belive these problems that we have are just the results or atributes of a much larger & sinister problem.
    Message churches are not to be run like buisinesses, where the pastour retires & hands off the church to a family member of HIS chosing.Same with the deacons etc.

    The BODY of BELIVERS are to vote every year on who will hold these offices.

    This was practiced & preached by bro Branham. This pattern helps to ensure that there are checks & ballances to power in the asymbly. This way there is no king,emporer, message pope that can emerge.

    WHEN THESE STEPS ARE NOT FOLLOWED THE CHURCH IS IMEDIATLY IN DANGER OF BECOMING A ONE MAN SHOW. From there we slowly begine to take the appearence of a denomination.

    Could this be one reason why Bro Branham said that buisenessman should stay out of the pulpit?

    I am not condeming any body with my staments, All I am saying is that Bro Branham saw us getting out of step & I belive this is how it hapens. I very much belive that these many programs that we created were very sincere & can be a blessing, but it slowly becomes a trap & a snare. Maybe a big machine.

    This problem is not in CBW alone, I belive the LORD is comanding us to get back to the pattern that Bro Branham taught. Every day that LWF doors stay open is another day of challenge to the rest of the Saints to take a good hard look at what I am sugesting. Thats why I belive so many saints are against us because we are a chalenge to the status quo. Not that we ever intended to be that, We just wanted to go & have church where would not be beaten. But I belive the Lord had a much bigger plan in mind.

    Please pray about these situations. We should not be diveded, we should be together on these subjects if its the mind of the Lord. Most message churches are great I just belive we can do better.. Starting with me of course. Thanks for listening & thanks for not teasing me about my spelling, my mother would kill me if she saw how bad I write.

    Love Gary & family

    • Temba says:

      Brother Gary
      You are someone that one should emulate, bar the spellings of course! Ha ha! I am so happy that you have given the case as it is. I am saddened, though, that these things are happening amongst the Bride in our own ranks. Its so sad.

      But could you also tell me what bro. Ed’s version of events was? What did he say when all these facts were laid in front of him? I know you have mentioned how you saw it, but state what his admissions and denials were if you may. Also did you and the other deacons take time to present the issues, from the pulpit, to the whole church before you left?

  58. Gary White says:

    Dear Bro Temba

    Initialy bro Ed did not want to discuss the mater. I belive it may have been to painfull of a subject to discuss for him & his family. Also I feel he did not want to see the awfull fall out that no doubt would & did occure.

    A sr deacon & a sr elder was sumonsed to speak to bro Ed. His opening coment (I am told ) was lets see what kind of a spirit is trying to bring these things out from under the blood. It is easy for me to belive that he said this because it matches with the many sermons that he preached on the subject.

    I do belive that on another ocasion he did speake to a sr minister & a deacon. He was alitle more forth comming in that metting, but seemed to have trouble rembering all the details, he reminded the bros that it had happened a long time ago. Bro Ed was also told that the details of the events would not leave the room. Bro Ed was up set that the storys did begin to be repeated to others on a very smale scale. I dont belive the sr minister or the deacon ever repeated the situation to any one, not even there wifes.

    After A while I know I spoke to a very few close freinds about the situation, but not untill I was able to confirm out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witness about the acusation against an elder.

    I belive the reason that the situations were repeated was because the problems were posibly taking on the appearence of being sweeped under the carpet again.

    In the mean time the victom of the sex crimes was still caught in a situation where he was very much in a sort of prison, no doubt he also had shame & guilt that he realy couldnt get free from as long as he stayed in totall silence about the 10 yr afair.

    Once the victom was contacted concerning the sins he was ready to talk & then be in a position to be set free.

    After revisiting the situation of how improperly things things were handled bro Ed decided to atempt an apoligy to the church. 90% of the church knew nothing of the situation, when the apoligy was finished 90% probably still knew nothing.

    Slowly the isues were becoming known, one of the main reasons for this was because the ministry began to very much speake about them from the pulpit.

    Bro Ed & his daughter apologised a second time. this apology was more direct & understandable. I am sad to say that I belive bro Ed did not realy want to give the church the option weather to forgive him or not. He reminded us that if we dont forgive him then neither will God forgive us our sins. This is a true statement but I belive it displays the wrong attitude & aproach. I dont belive that bro Ed was in a position to threaten us in this mater.

    It might be worth metioning that no amount of apoligies may have been recieved by some of the bros, which is very understandable in this case. I know we should always forgive, but there should be alowed a time of proving. just like Joseph was interested in proving wether his bros were really sincere in being sorry for selling him in to slavery.

    I guess the best thing I can tell you in answere to your question is that bro Ed did feel & still does feel that things were all under the blood & any conversation about them is influenced by satan. In fairness to bro Ed I am sure that he felt very vaulnerable, & was woried about his enemies taking advantage of the situation.

    Did we go to the pulpit with the info? no. Bro Ed had already assured the congregation that any puplic or private conversation about the issues borderd on comitting the un pardenable sin. Bro Ed at the end of one of bro Kiumbees masacare messages had all the people stand who were guilty of ever listening to or speaking about the pedophilia situation.

    To try & go into more details about the meetings is litle to off limits for me.

    I AM EXTREAMLY CONVINCED & EXCITED TO SAY THAT I KNOW THESE DARK DAYS ARE NOW GIVING WAY TO A TREMENDOUSE & BLESSED OUTCOME. That includes the victoms, the saints at CBW & LWF & the bride arround the world. Hallulugah!!!!

    Bro Ed & most of the rest of us are being pulled through a knot hole backwards, but dont worry when He is done with us will look just like HIM. He is our 5 star general & He wont let us down. I thank HIM daily for His patience & undying love for us & Him taking the time to keep us on the straight & narrow way.

    God Bless you Bro Temba GW

  59. fred says:

    Hey everyone – here’s a new idea. Everyone is only allowed to say things
    about what he or she experienced themselves. If it’s second hand information, you’re not really allowed to discuss it very much.

    A church is like a school. You got your A students, and you got your C- students, and the C- students aren’t going to become A students, no matter how many hymns you sing in church. But you also got a few people that are going to fail. But in church, everyone is smiling all the time, and if someone doesn’t like someone else in church, he just keeps on smiling. It’s an artificial environement. Eventually, it has to split up. That’s not a problem. But the big problem I see here, is everyone discussing things based on second hand information. I don’t know what anyone in Cloverdale did or didn’t do. And I definitely am not going to start believing things that people like Tsanning say. I won’t even believe things coming from someone I know.

    I happen to know of a guy who started acting peculiar. I won’t say the details, but the guy started seeing ‘signs’ everywhere he looked, and he really started to act unusual. The guy, I suppose you could say, began ‘stalking’ one of the girls in church. These idiots in church went to the pastor, and accused the guy of having bad intentions. The idiots are the ones with bad intentions, and that is why they accuse the other person of having bad intentions. Now, the bible says the ‘tongue’ is able to change the course of history. What that means, is, a little lie (or a big ugly lie, as might be possiblee in Cloverdale) can literally alter people’s lives, cause people to lose a fortune, or other things I’m nost even sure of. But we know the bible says a lie is a bad thing.

    So when the nicest most Christian people on earth, accuse another person of having bad intentions, are you going to believe them? Not me. I’ll believe what happened to me, but not anything that is told to me through second hand information.

    .

  60. Madiba says:

    Shalom,

    I think that some people are misleading people about what actually transpired at CBW. I mean you have an ex-deacon lying with straight face here regarding Rock ‘n Roll music at CBW.

    They have their services beaming over the internet spectrum and I have never seen any traces of Rock ‘n Roll in music composition. Ed Byskal has just given me his side of the story in a nutshell and has indicated that he has not time on things that have no Eternal value.

    I am at no liberty to expound on my conversation with Ed Byskal, and he was not even aware of the blog that Tsaninning has created. I admire his inability to be distracted by people who have no heavenly ambition. I once to that man (Tsanning was not a woman) that Ed Byskal ministry would outlive his blog. People should not be naive but should ask themselves as why Tsanning stopped blogging. He must have been embarrassed to hear his Pastor talking against about his blog.

    Whoever claims that at CBW there is Rock ‘n Roll should provide evidence against what we get to see on their streamed services. There is nothing wrong about the pastor insisting on top notch technology, and I personally prefer to use the Countryman E6 microphone and do not want to use anything else and if somebody has issues with that then we should go back to Bro Branham’s opening statement in his opening message entitled ‘Faith is the substance of things hoped for”; THEY ARE GETTING NEW RECORDING GADGETS.

    I prefer gadgets….and by the way if Ed Byskal loves money then he would charged money on the dowloading off the The Message Hub Website.

    • ShalomShalom says:

      You either have to be one of the most naive people I have ever seen or you are trying to intentionally mislead others.

  61. Gary White says:

    Dear Bro Madiba

    Greetings in the Name of the Lord… What did Bro Lance have to say when you talked to him??

    Liar, what does that word mean? I, showing you my great character & mercy (ha) let you off the hook by not demanding that you keep your promise to us at LWF.

    You promised to personaly fly over here to BC & appologise if I could prove that the elder saints did try to encourage bro Ed to alow Sr ministers from outside to come & help mediate. I spoke to 4 sr elders to confirm this fact, I then related that info to you per your very impatient demand.

    I have been to the Van Couver air port waiting to greet you, know one at the airport has seen you, maybe its cheaper to fly in to the Seattle air port, I will wait for you there.

    My acusations of CBW & its music are going back maybe 5 yrs & more. I am told & want to belive things are beter now. Pedophile is a word that I used to couldnt aven pronounce, now I can spell it backwards (I think)..

    Same with christian rock & roll. As a one time watchman for the Lord for 17yrs at CBW I also had to educate myself or alow the Lord to inform me about christian rock & roll in the message churchs.

    PLEASE READ THE ARTICLE WRITTEN BY MATHEW WATKINS ON CHRISTIAN ROCK & ROLL IN THE MESSAGE CHURCHES. ev@theeaglesview.org The article was written about 3 or so yrs ago. I personaly spoke to bro Mathews father; Jason Watkins & told him that I was going to have a statue of his son bro Mathew made & place it in my livingroom. (ha)

    Remember Bro Branham saw us being influenced by that US church dancing to rock & roll. (Master piece)

    God Bless you my brother, GW

    • Cal says:

      Gary white you are pathetic !!! And you are supposed to be some kind of a deacon??? Shame on you!!! I can’t stand this , it makes me sick … Stop judging others , are you perfect ?? Is your wife perfect??? I don’t think either of you is, so why all these nonsense? Please get a life , do your duty as a deacon perhaps ask The Lord to give you widsom on how to behave yourself as his servant . Stop wasting time on the Internet writing negativities about God’s servant .you should be in the message , reading your bible and praying not on the Internet checking the blog every single day to know what’s in . It’s shame to know that our deacons ( in the message ) do shameful things like this … You are lowering yourself , do everyone a favor and leave this blog please , no one cares about what you are writing. We need deacons that are dedicated to The Lord and not dedicated to some blog … GET A LIFE!!!!!

    • Cal says:

      Shalom, do you have a job?? Do you do anything at all but blogging ?? Seriously ?? I was reading the posts above , it’s seems like you are just there waiting for somebody to comment and you respond right away .. Get a life too , find something that can keep you busy , please give a break to this thing like brother dustinthewind . Are you getting payed by someone to write stupidities here ?? If not , than what is your purpose?? And if you do get payed , you need to get a normal job . You don’t live in bc , why are you so concern about the churches in bc??? I don’t get you …

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Bro/Sis,

        How many nick’s do you post under?

        Anyway, if you look in the area to where you can reply to a post, you will notice the check boxes that you can select which states “Notify me of follow-up comments via email” I do not have to watch this deliberate attack against the saints of God by Bro Madiba and Bro Batsi to know when a comment has been made. A notice is sent to my email. Since you do no know about this feature, how do you know when a comment is made? Are you guilty of what you accuse others of? hmmm….

        You do know that one of the “evidences” of having the Holy Ghost is the crying and sighing for the abominations that are done IN the CITY (Message). Not the wilderness (nominal world) but in the city (Message).

        It really upsets you to see someone sighing and crying for the abominations done in the city, doesn’t it? You gonna try to put me out just like they tried to put Bro Branham out of the city for crying and sighing for the abominations done in the city during his time?

        As for some claiming ignorance, how can they claim ignorance when they themselves took their internet streaming off the public access of the net due to the sole fact of Tsanning’s blog and/or they didn’t want their deliberate attack of the fellow saints be known to those who didn’t have a “password” to ‘join a denomination’?

        You have to be careful subscribing to ‘sermons’ that require passwords. I know a man that was intentionally framed and lied on when he did this. Who would of thought some person working in the audio dept of a church would try to do God a service without it being his will by hacking into that brothers email (by using his personal info to subscribe to sermons) just to destroy that brothers influence with others?

        Who would have thought a person with influence would use ‘hidden’ money in secret ‘personal’ accounts which was given to the furtherance of the Gospel just to destroy another man’s marriage by paying for private investigators to find out secret information and acting like it was discernment or the man’s wife was spilling the beans? The prophet of God said the impersonation of a prophet is absolutely blasphemy before God. And no, before some ignoramus declares they didn’t use the secret account to do this, I don’t believe they did either. They got the money out of the account for other ‘legitimate’ reasons. Then after the money was out of the account, it “cash offerings” was used to persecute the other portion of the Bride. In the criminal world, this is called money laundering.

        As for what you don’t know, there could be more victims involved than just the victim which suffered sex abuse from those proclaiming to be representatives of God.

  62. DustInTheWind says:

    This is a great sitcom….pull up a chair and have a laugh! You guys want to spend eternity together? Hahahaha!! Too funny!!! They should rename the blog “Little Women” after the book and the movie. I’m still laughing! If you guys think you’re gonna make it, I’d rethink that!! Bunch of whining infants that need a smack upside the head!! Haha! Can u imagine the denominational people reading this? They must shake their heads and be happy they worship idols! Haha! Man I wouldn’t wanna be in the same legalist whiney wimpy heaven as you fellas! So funny! Look at y’all! The wheel keeps turning and crushing doesn’t it?

  63. Gary White says:

    Dear Dust in the wind

    I am sorry that you feel that I wont make it. But I am glad to say that its not up to you who will make it or not. This bro is attempting to correct what he views as error, I am doing the same.

    I am continually amazed how fiercly some belivers wont to defend there christian rock ways. I could more easily understand it if we were talking about some Godly principles or some doctrine in the message, but to get worked up over trying to say that its ok to buy cristian rock CDS, DVDS go to there concerts & then bring it in to house of the Living God , along with its styles,influences, attitudes & ecuminical spirits it just bafles me.

    Its always the same with you bros, instead humbling your selves & making the proper changes to your diet, you begen to say that we are just legalist & not going to Heaven.

    Yall want to say times have moved on & so has the music, when bro Branham saw the bride marching she was marching to the tune of on wards Christian soldiers.

    All hail the power of Jesus Name, Is the song that Bro Branham said would be the inaugral song in Heaven. HOW sad it will be if you brothers have your way with the music, that when we get to Heavan no body even knows these songs. For they have become to boring & out dated for your modern taste.

    Sorry to be a little rough with you, just say ouch & pray & study a little more on the subject.

    Sincerely Gary W

  64. DustInTheWind says:

    Gary I wasn’t really commenting on Christian rock. I don’t care for it either. What I was commenting on is how all of you guys are not getting along! It’s almost humorous! If this is where you’re all at this far down the line it’s laughable nearly. Sorta like when Moses went up to receive the 10 Commandments, it didn’t take long and everyone was running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Everyone on here seems to be doing the same thing! I agree with the music thing entirely, a lot of it is garbage but who really cares? If ya want to eat junk food fill yourself with it, if you want fresh meat or vegetables, have at it. This is the sort of thing that keeps a lot of people from ever coming back, the arguing and finger pointing, who needs it? When I said legalist, I wasn’t meaning the music, I was meaning how nit picky everyone is on both sides of the fence. So glad I have nothing to do with either side anymore… I remember going swimming with brothers in a lake, a few of us put on trunks or went in with just underwear, there were brothers totally offended and told us we should be wearing our jeans….now you tell me…how far is too far? Who had the REAL problem? The guys swimming in their ginch? Or the guys being weighted down with their blue jeans on? Did those guys in jeans have some sort of weird problem in their head by seeing a brother in trunks or ginch? Or should we have worn jeans and maybe rubber boots too? Too far is too far! The the legalist puke I’m talking about! How bout the tvs

  65. DustInTheWind says:

    THAT’s the legalist puke I’m talking about! How about TVs being hidden in everyones closets for years? Now we all have Internet and that makes TV look like Mickey Mouse! We are in this world but not of it….so I would say we would be affected by rubbing shoulders with it, might even use some of it, but in our heart we just aren’t of it! I remember a brother making a big deal of billboards with women in bathing suits on etc..said he thinks it’s a bad thing and has to really fight it etc…I told him if he can’t get past a billboard at 60 mph without almost hitting the ditch staring….then yea he has a problem! Told him I can fly by it, if I see some woman in a bikini….big deal….by the time i pass the advertisement….it’s already out of my head…I think a lot of people really make issues out of nothing! They turn legalistic and live miserably, but if they backslide they go so far out into left field in the world that they might never ever make it back to God. (notice I said God…not church) there’s a balance to everything and if you’re wound too tight yer gonna snap. A lot of what I see on here are very tightly wound people who are pathetic with many of their ideas. No Gary I didn’t say it’s up to me who makes it or not, I’d rather you all make it, just if I’m there, I’d wanna be way off from the rest of you after what I’ve seen and heard in the past 20 years…hopefully there’s fishing there!! (smiles)

  66. DustInTheWind says:

    And ya Gary, I agree with some of what Cal said. You are jaw flapping way too much, saying things to brothers overseas that you don’t even know, detailing many things which shouldn’t be detailed, especially publicly like you have been doing. You disguise what you say by starting off with saying you LOVE Ed etc then you full head on attack him and barf and spew all over him. Gary, you’ve always had a bit of a problem sticking your nose into things, you’re just hurt that your hero Ed lashed out at you a bit I think. I think Lance preached for the congregation to leave the blogs alone and don’t go on them or comment from what I understand…yet you carry on not listening to your pastor? You’re kind of naive I think, even answering brethren overseas months back and you had no clue who they were. True colours have really been shown. No I’m not a “follower” of either Bro Ed or Bro Lance.

    • ShalomShalom says:

      What was the motive of Cal?

      The motive is more important than the action my old friend.

      • Cal says:

        Shalom get a life stop blogging , my motive is to tell you and Gary to get better lives do something good with your lives …. Now what’s yours???

      • Cal says:

        By the way am not your old frien , don’t know you . So don’t know what you mean … My old frienddddddd

      • ShalomShalom says:

        I realize you don’t know what I mean. You are either posting in such haste or your comprehension is so slow you don’t even know who I am posting to let alone what I am speaking about.

        Perhaps your true motive is to muddy the waters because you can’t possibly support sin and look righteous any other way.

        Pro 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both [are] abomination to the LORD.

  67. DustInTheWind says:

    Once again we all are derailing! Yes myself included! It’s so easy to jump in to the frenzy that happens on these blogs. I do think that critical information such as what Gary has enlightened us all with, should be left alone and not broadcast publicly. People make mistakes in life, things happen, most of us live with regrets I’m sure, but to keep dragging people and churches thru the mud is dead wrong I think. Gary would you want your iniquities and mistakes broadcast on here? You act like you are so spiritual, yet do you think Bro Branham would broadcast sensitive material like YOU have been doing on this blog? You have really shown what your insides are like and for some reason, you won’t stop gnawing and chewing at CBW. I realize you used to be a poster boy for Bro Ed, you enjoyed the recognition and limelight back then, but now things have changed and you are hurt and upset, so you relentlessly attack. Don’t u think it’s better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it? Why not just let it all go and carry on with your life instead of constantly spewing sewage about other people? Is anyone from CBW attacking your life on here? I don’t think so! The things you have said on here are quite damaging and nobodies business, I’d question your motives if I were you and I’d be careful, you might get God upset with you and your perfect little life might end up being not so perfect anymore…careful is all I can say.

  68. Gary White says:

    Dear Brothers

    I have tried to take as much of the responsibility of what has gone on at CBW as any body. I do agree with Bro Madiba that this is not just a BC thing. I belive it is a global thing. And the bride international needs to know how to avoid repeating some of our mistakes.. My love to Bro Ed is in this context; true love is always corrective, I have tried very hard to be respectfull & fair to bro Ed.

    My motives are quite clear as to why I have sacrificed so much time on this site.

    I belive they are the same motives that the Holy Spirit had when He inspired The prophet Sammuel to elaborate on the events that transpired through out the life of king David & king Saul etc. Bro Branham said that a normal Hebrew would have never wrote about the sins & crimes of its kings & peoples.

    I belive this information is importantant to hear about as it will serve as a warning & a example. Same as when the sunday school teacher had to go back & make things write with her husband. In the message the church in Isreal Bro Branham said many people found out about her sins & knew how she was & that it was embarising but the Holy Spirit did it.

    I am sorry my words rub you the wrong way, You may know begen to understand why the more Stephen the deacon spoke the angryier the church got untill they finally smacked him up side the head (DITW) with stones & knashed on him with there teeth (words of criticisim) Cal

    I would incourage you bros to not get caught up in emotions & anger. Take a good long look at some of the things that have been spoken here. I truely belive that they will help all of us. I dont feel there should be any winners & losers here. This could be a win win situation for all who are concerned with the Body Of Christ.

    Thanks for listening GW

    • Cal says:

      Okay Gary true love is corrective , so you gonna correct bro Ed on thi blog right?? You are sick in your head , something is wrong with you seriously . Okay if I can ask you , since you’ve been blogging on how bad Ed is , has he told you his been corrected ??? I don’t think so , so why do you keep on doing this stupidness ??? I call this nonsense . First take care of your own home , am sure there is much that need to be in place in your house , starting with your teenage son right??? But you know what am much better that you , am not gonna go into killing someone else’s testimony like you are doing with brother ed’s . All I can tell you is that we are all not perfect , so instead of wasting so much time on this blog , let get in the message , be more in prayer for one another … Please just leave this blog alone it’s got enough of your not so helpful comments already!!!

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Bro Cal,

        This is what I’ve been trying to get Bro Madiba and Bro Batsi to do all along. Instead all they want to do is attack the victims to justify the aggressors. Now when someone tells that the aggressors are in fact the one on the attack, name calling, and being hypocritical about splitting churches, you want to cry fowl.

        How exactly does that work for you? All you have to do do is convince the aggressors and originators of this site to take it down and your problem will be solved. You can’t come to grips with the fact that it is the side you are in support of that is constantly on the attack, and now you want to act like the aggressors are innocent little victims. Is that from the playbook of Hilary Rodham Clinton?

        Is it your opinion that it is totally okay for the originators of this site can go on the attack and false accuse the innocent as long as nobody states the facts which actually occurred are in direct contradiction to the accusations of the nicolaitians?

  69. DustInTheWind says:

    Gary,

    All I have been trying to say to you is… “When is enough simply enough?” I’m not defending what happened at CBW but don’t you think, by YOU pouring fuel on the fire, it’s starting things up again? Your own pastor told the congregation to leave this thing alone and he had hoped that no one in LWF was a part of the blog. You say things to overseas brothers that you don’t even know. There are a lot of things you said which in my opinion should be dealt with by those directly involved. Your own brothers and sisters you attend church with must see what you are saying and shake their head at you. My point is…we all have dirt in our life… we have all said things and done things… but don’t you think it’s time to leave it alone? In no way do I agree with a lot of what I have seen or heard… but I think the key players have been beaten up for long enough don’t you? It boils down to being between them and God anyways. What you are doing is what causes people to run and stay away from any sort of church gathering. A couple of loose cannons shooting from the hip… don’t you think you are keeping this blog alive and in turn it’s hurting the ones who were directly effected by the past indiscretions of certain people? Theres a difference between knocking a guys teeth out… and bludgeoning him to death. If you are comparing yourself to Stephen the martyr… I’d reconsider that, no where close Gary. You are relentless with your spewing. If things happened to YOU first hand… then go ahead and tell of your experience and hurts… but all i see you doing is going on what you THINK happened… and it has nothing to do with you… hadn’t you left church before the split anyways over a set of drums and had house meetings? Can you imagine what people think? You quit being a deacon and left because of drums? What happened to just spitting out the pits? To me thats overboard religious… I think it’s time for you to stop Gary… I am sure if we dug into your life, we could easily find garbage you would be horrified about. What happened to flying over the weak eagle dropping him food and encouragement? Instead… you are circling like a vulture and attacking left right and center till the eagle in the valley is dead or near dead. Saying you are showing corrective love is garbage… those are just nice words to justify and shroud your spewing of sewage. The reason I can speak this way, is I too have been attacked in years past, I know what it’s like to be beaten to pieces, I DO know what it’s like to be falsely accused and no matter how much you try and defend yourself or tell the absolute truth and prove it… people still enjoy tearing away at a persons open wounds. It would have been much wiser for those people who hurt me… to show love and humility and ask for forgiveness once they saw they were wrong. Instead it makes a person very “street smart” when it comes to believers. Now I don’t know if the accusations are true or false concerning Bro Ed and others… but really who cares? They have to live with it not you. My biggest mistake in the past was I let people murder me and prayed for them instead. Well, that’s then and this is now.. today I’d drag them by the ears and publicly demand an apology, some would suffer broken limbs I am sure, but that’s with my own personal experiences and problems… not the next guys problems. Stick with your own problems. And don’t you think there is enough negative puke on the plate already without having to bring up the subject of drums in church? Give me a break. How can anyone get healed from all this garbage Gary if you keep bringing up new slop? Its almost like you have a form of Godliness but are denying the power thereof. Do you think Bro Lance would condone what you have been doing and saying on here? You are feeding a machine and you should stop. You are making it difficult for yourself and really proving what you are all about. The only martyrdom you experience Gary is the problems you make for yourself. You ever stop to think that your family wants you to drop it… and your fellow brothers and sisters want you to stop… but they are just too polite and don’t want to offend you so they don’t bother saying anything. If this was out there in the REAL world… I’m pretty sure you would have been shut up a long time ago.

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Actually, according to the record which is easily referenced, you can plainly see that it was Bro Madiba which is constantly stirring things up. As I said before, most like to remember things they wish they were instead of the way they actually were.

      Refer to
      “Madiba says:
      April 16, 2011 at 5:47 PM”

      Then poster Cal who has more nicks than a zebra has stripes started a misinformation campaign that everyone is more evil than him/herself sob story while glorifying sin and saying the aggressors are the victims.

      Nobody wants to hurt you or bring up your past. Just make sure you have asked the Lord’s forgiveness in sincerity. If you are ever in the area where I reside feel free to meet me for coffee.

      As for those who proclaim to be authorities over others, they can either be leaders or pushers. If they choose to be true leaders, those who follow can be lead safely to Christ. If they choose to be pushers and blaim others for their mistakes, they can cause those they are pushing to fall. When that happens serious injury or death can occur. Hasn’t there been enough suicides caused by the pushers? No wonder so many wish to drop off the radar.

      • DustInTheWind says:

        I know that it was Batsi and Madiba who started it all….but all I’m saying is Gary keeps it going…and why would Gary bother explaining anything to overseas brothers he doesn’t even know? They could be anybody. I totally agree with a lot of what he says but it’s just time to leave it alone isn’t it? I too have been on the receiving end from Gary years ago when he falsely accused me of something horrible….to which I defended myself and proved my innocence….brought in the person that he said I had done something to…that person defended me and said no such thing occurred…. I demanded an apology from everyone involved in accusing me….all I got from Gary was…it’s better to let a sleeping dog lie. I wanted apologies from deacons and ministry and that’s what Gary gives me….so my family and I left the church…only to bump into Gary a year later and in his words of wisdom and love he looks at me and says….Well is your GUT full of the world yet? That’s Gary White. He’s a blithering idiot as well as a few other deacons who left Ed’s. So when I see this wheel that finally has come around and made full circle…I can’t help but grin….how’s it feel to be dejected, rejected, name called, accused, shut out, scorned, beaten and left for dead? Nice eh? Here someones been murdered by his so called brothers years ago….and Gary is acting like a whiny wimp worried about drums!! What Gary is doing on here is the same he did to me….relentless…to the point where I was almost convinced I musta been over taken by a spirit and did this thing and don’t remember…that’s how hard Gary attacked me and rejected the truth I was telling from the start…thank God someone stood up and vouched that I indeed was telling the truth…thought I was losing my marbles!! See??? Gary is one of those religious overboard idiots, that should have been smacked around or taken for a trunk ride…if he pulled that on me today…he’d be in a wheelchair! All in the Name of God Gary? How’s it feel to be a castaway from Ed? I hope u are enjoying that horrible taste in your mouth and your GUT….and the panic and sleepless nights and the despair…a long with a couple other of your cohort deacons who left…but who were always happy to carry out executions for the BOSS!

      • Cal says:

        And to you shalom , you haven’t yet answered to my question . What is your motive ?? Why are you so concern about what us happening in bc when you don’t even live in bc ??? What us your problem??? Do you know brother Ed?? Have you approached him on these things?? You are accusing the brothers from south Africa for starting these confusions , but never once did I see you on tsanning’s blog blasting her or him for doing what she or he was doing which was obviously wrong. So with that I say your are A hypocrite … Sorry but it’s the truth . Thank you

      • Cal says:

        The us means is

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Bro/Sis Cal,

        I have a weakness that was caused by person trying to get a leg up by pushing someone else down through lies and hypocrisy. That drove me to the point of diving off a rail road bridge into a river; however, I was constrained. Now when I see others deliberately attacking the saints of God without excuse or letting up, I have a tendency to take up for those who are being done wrong. Sometimes I am able to restrain myself from this weakness, but I gave into it this time. Please pray that I’ll do better in the future.

        Once I took up for a person (perhaps the same one you are attempting to take up for) which I thought was being done wrong. I found out later that I was wrong and he was only reaping what he sowed. However, it was only after I caused the one exposing him so much hardship that he shut up. It was rumored that the individual later committed suicide due to the denominational pressure of the one that I took up for. This is why I am hesitant to take up for some at first. Bro Branham took up for the wrong person one time and God caused a rifle to explode in his face. The reason I did not go on Tsanning’s site is she was not a Message Believer, and I didn’t want to get in trouble with God for taking up for someone that was only reaping what he sowed, and her blog was a direct response to him deliberately attacking the saints of God even though she did not know that is what he was doing.

        As for me telling Tsanning I did not support her decision of opening a blog, I did just that on Bro Alan’s forum. However, I am not her Holy Ghost, and I can’t control other’s actions, nor is it my intention to force others to do what I think is right else I could be found taking up for someone I shouldn’t like Brother Branham did and get in trouble with God. The fact of the matter remains is, if a certain person would have never grieved the Holy Ghost by attacking the saints of God, Tsanning’s blog would have never been started.

        I even told Tsanning to be very careful doing what she was attempting to do. When Israel got out of line, God rose up the Babylonians, Hitler, Syrians etcetera to correct them, but after Israel repented it didn’t turn out too good for those coming against Israel. The problem I see with you is you are trying to condemn Jeremiah for telling the Israelites the truth of what God spoke through him. It was not Jeremiah’s fault because Israel was carried off into captivity. That was Israel’s fault. After they repented and turned to God, they came back to the homeland.

        Have you seen any evidence of those attacking the saints of God repenting and turning from their wicked ways? No… then why are you not insisting nicolaitain spirit which started this blog to take it down? If they did, your problem you think you have would be solved.

        If you wish to verify what I told you about discouraging Tsanning on Bro Alan’s forum, you can check it out at http://forums.delphiforums.com/branham . Look for thread 3356; perhaps thread 3333 would also interest you. However, don’t go in there with the same attitude you have here, he’ll kick you out thinking you are a troll.

  70. I dont care says:

    Gary White you are a sicko!!!!! u need get ur head checked! get a life seriously! i cant even believe ur a deacon??? who are u to judge ppl and who do u think u are ? Trust me u dont want me to start telling everyone about how messed up ur family is . especially ur crazy messed wife! u make me sick! ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRG! im gonna stop here cuz if i continue u will spend years crying ur self to bed since we all know how emotionally unstable U are. Now go ahead and say wtvr u want about me im done.
    1!

  71. Gary White says:

    Dear Cal

    Are you a sister in the message?

    I promise you that I will be as quiet as the LORD tells me to be.

    You seem to be quite sure that there is something wrong with me, my wife & son. Please let me know what are problems are so we can adress them or correct them if necesary. Thanking you in advance for your cooperation.

    Now I dont have a teenage son. But I think he is doing alright considering that a perdiction was given over the CBW pulpit one & half yrs ago that all our young people would be in the world in 6months. So with that in mind we must consider ourselves lucky that they still come to church faithfully & fake us out.

    Seriously though after what my family & others are & have endured at the hands of CBW, I should feel blessed that they even belive there is a God.

    As I said earlier are you out raged by what YOU percive as attacks on the leadership at CBW. Are you just as outraged by the attacks that bro Ed & company are pouring out over there pulpit against our leadership & families?? HOW MANY EMAILS HAVE YOU SENT TO CBW & OTHERS WHO ARE GUILTY OF THIS BEHAVIOR to stop. Have you investegated these atrocities with a burning desire to discover the truth. Is bro Rod really king Balik like bro Ed said? is Bro Lance really Ballim like bro Ed said? is bro Tony Abma & his wife really seminary belivers, Can sis Ann really not find her self in the scriptures? Is bro Harry Mcneil really as evil as bro Ed said. All these & more have been spoken publicly at the CBW pulpit, & apperently he is not done yet. I cleaned up the vomit of others at CBW for 17 yrs but I dont belive there is a bucket big enough to contain that that I have just described. So much for the lime light that I supposedly enjoyed.

    If these facts that I have just described dont bother you then wouldnt it be safe to say you are guilty of being a respecter of persons & partial in your judgements??

    THAT IS WHY I CANT GIVE MUCH SERIOUSE THOUGHT & CONSIDERATION to you & the others many insults,threats & accusations that you have spoken to me in a very hostile & agresive mannor.

    I & my family are certainly not perfect, But THE SACRIFICE that we have accepted is.
    As a rule I will allow myself to be abused by others to a point. But as a rule I almost never sit idily by & watch others be abused. I dont have enough of the OX anointing I guess. The only way evil or error can prevail is when good people sit idely by & say or do nothing.

    Now on to a very important subject DITW hopes that there will be some good fishing in Heavan, well if there is we are going to have to learn to get along while we are down here first, because I plan to be at the same lake with you. You get a line & I will get a pole, we will go down to the crawl dad hole.

    Thanks for your patience Gary W

    • Cal says:

      Gary , your young people could be coming to church physically there but are totally and completely dead spiritually … Mow am not saying it’s all the young people are backsliding bur the majority of your young people are … Sorry that’s just the truth.. Many of your young girls are totally wearing makeup on their faces … When the young people get together , they either play video games or they talk about things that are not just helping them spiritually , am not saying you have to talk about spiritual things all the time but it becomes a problem when you just never talk about it . Am not just guessing these things , but I have good friend of mine (a young person) who is still attending livingword against his will of course , and that’s how I know these things. And there’s a lot more I can say but I’ll end it there… Why would I send an email to brother Ed if he never acctually said that rod was this and lence is that or Tony .. He preached a sermon however if you think they fit the descriptions that he gave then that’s up to you. You and your wife have always been so judgmental , am a victim of your prejudgments . I asked you a question that you haven’t answered , I know you been on this blog doing what you call corrective love … Has brother Ed changed his ways yet ??? Or the ministers in cbw ??? If not then why continue ?? I think you have something else behind , you just wanna kill his testimony .. But i’ll not allow you to do that , I know you are not the one to cast stones .. Please someone else but not you…

      • ShalomShalom says:

        ” If not then why continue ?? ”

        Perhaps he is holding out hope that they are capable of repenting. You know deliberate underhanded attacks against the saints are wrong. Have they quit doing that?

    • Cal says:

      Oh you will not sit and watch others being abused , but have you asked yourself how many you have abused not sexually but mentally with false accusations ?? I gues not … You’re really stupid , am sorry but you really are stupid and selfish ,you don’t care how you affect others but you care so
      Much when others affect you ….
      Much on how others affect you.

    • Cal says:

      By the way isn’t Luke white your son???

  72. Gary White says:

    Dear Brothers & Sisters

    What ever past wrongs that I may have commited needs to be borought to me personaly, the way the Bible & bro Branham says, If you dont love me or the Bible enough to do that simple step then its time to go back to the ABCs of the message.

    I stoped posting on this site long ago, maybe 4 or 5 wks ago. A bro asked me personly a question only recently & I answered it, I will go back & review my staments & see if I am as guilty of the many things that I am being accused of.

    Again CAL are you a sis in this message? Please listen to bro Eds Oct 3rd message before you futher embarace your self. Yes I still belive bro Ed will change his ways especialy if yall will let me live long enough to help. If not then God will raise some one else to do the job.

    In the end I look foward to happy reunion with some of you & a chance to get to know the rest of you, I think we will relize that we are not nearly as bad as we thought each other was. One day we will gather & laugh & cry & then laugh some more over this.

    Its true that my hart & my spirit has been broken, but I belive that it will be for most every ones benifit.

    God bless you all & stay on the firing line Love GW

  73. Cal says:

    Brother Gary am sorry for being a little aggressive , but I just feel like your motivation is somehow wrong . And again you’re here really to just prove to the whole world how wrong brother Ed is , and that’s is not also what Brother branham has taught us … If you have something wrong against your brother go and see him , he never once said go and speak publicly about it . And that is what you are doing on this blog , every single time someone has a question to us about cbw ministry you just go way off on them … And that is not the spirit of Christ. Specially when we are all human and we dailly die to our selves . I think what you should do the next time anyone had wrong intentions and questions about cbw , you tell them to pray for the saints at cbw and the pastor instead of displaying their wrongs… Thank you

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Do you know that the Catholic church will call you a bigot if you tell the truth on them, and the gays will call you a homophobe if you tell them the truth?

      Isn’t that something?

      • DustInTheWind says:

        And believers will tell you that you have the wrong spirit if you tell the truth on them? It is quite something I concur!

  74. DustInTheWind says:

    Gary, you just blew your entire reasoning for talking publicly on here. You said if anyone has a problem with you to come to you personally the way the Bible and Bro Branham said. Then you go on to say if a person doesn’t love you or the Bible enough to do that simple step it’s time to go back to the ABC’s of the Message. (your own words right?).
    A brother asked you a question personally? Well why didn’t you email the answer to him “personally”? Instead you let the whole thing be viewed by the general public didn’t you? Maybe you don’t know the ABC’s yourself? Double standard? Again, I don’t condone in any way what’s happened at CBW but Gary, at least use your melon and not paint yourself into a corner with your own words! I could easily open fire with both barrels and obliterate people who have attempted to destroy me, but the collateral damage would be too heavy so I’ve kept it down to minor target practice. Believe me, I get very tempted to publicly open fire and drop names of people who shot at me in the past…and embarrass them into pieces but so far I’ve controlled that urge…you should go to Ed directly and talk to him, then and only then would you have the right to publicly say anything and tell us what happened. I agree that there has been major power tripping by the ministry over the years but you should keep it to what happened to YOU personally….not what happened to others.

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Bro,

      The personal approach was already tried with the ones running this blog, and it was publicly published without the regard of the one trying to have the “private” conversation. Later it was deleted when someone complained about it. At least that is what I remember. Also another person posted something in French to keep things quite, and Bro Batsi posted the translation without regard for keeping things quite.

      So your assertions against Bro GW doesn’t hold much water. You should be making them against the hosts of this blog. One of them claims to be a Message Preacher and Convention Speaker. You would think one of such “caliber” would know better, wouldn’t you? Oh well, I guess not. His Catholic training as a youth probably is controlling his thoughts more than the Word of God is. He should be ashamed, don’t you agree?

      Or are you too focused on getting back at GW past actions toward you to consider the whole picture?

      • Cal says:

        Uhm okay shalom !!! I would really like you to tell me how you think the saints and the pastor at cbw need to repent . You see
        To know so much about what goes on behind doors , if they repented and God forgave them , how would you know that??? Am sure that was why you told tsanning as you claim to do , to be careful right ?? Cause you really don’t know how they stand infront of God. And as for you taking someone to the point of commuting suicide that is shameful . Yes shame on you!!!! I dont even know why you would put that up here publicly . Why , you think you’ll get glory out of??? Or you think by saying that we gonna have some kind of respect for you??? I think what you should do is , Shut your mouth and u
        Your thoughts on what you think about anyone’s life and let God deal with them , and not annoy them or drive them crazy to the point were they can’t handle it and take their life. That is absolutely wrong, you are pathetic , but you know what the stupidness you write on this blog won’t cause anyone to commit suicide . oh no they will not , it’s total nonsense , second hand informations , so that’s why you seem like a fool to me . You don’t live in bc , don’t know bro Ed . I asked you if you had even spoken to him on these things , not the two brothers from south Africa , but bro Ed . Tell me why you think he should repent , how do you know if he’s done it or not , maybe totally standing before God spotless (I think ) but according to you , there are all sinners and need to repent , nonsense!!!! How about the saints at livingword’s who are totally backsliding, why don’t you run your mouth on them like you seem to do with everyone you think is sinning. Shout , scream REPENT , stop wearing make up , dont waist time on video all the time , fellowship on the word . Oh no you don’t seem to touch the side , right?? Maybe cause your just the same?? You see faults in others and sins in others but yourself just like you fellow friend Gary . Oh yeah , you say i get on Gary’s past and bring it up , that’s the exact same thing the two of you seem to be doing about bro Ed, so why blame me , oh I forgot you guys only seen wrong in others but your two perfect lives…. Not so perfect… Nonsense . Get a life … Tell me why are you so concern , you don’t live in bc , Ed is not your pastor , you don’t attend neither cbw or lfw , so what is your part to play??? I wanna know . Thank you

      • Cal says:

        I am making accusation against Gary because he needs to be quite , just like I think you should too . Gary is judgmental , rude , accuse people with no evidence and according to what he thinks in his big head . And I am a victim if that , so that is why I am here , am not taking second hand opinions like you are Shalom , I know what am talking about , so unlike you I have the answers to why i am so against what Gary is doing . And as you can see , there is like two more people on this blog , maybe even 4 , so that makes it more than 3 witnesses and therefore we vote Gary White outttttt. He has proven himself and to all of you who read this blog, to be the wrong person to judge others , cause he’s not perfect and his entire family too . And you seem to be just like Gary white , that’s why sticking up for his nonsense lies and jugdemental comments here . I mean you are even worse , cause you pushed someone to commit suicide , and yet you so proud to put on here publicly thinking it’s gonna scare us … Stupid minds , sorry it’s the truth.

      • Cal says:

        OH HAIL TO KING shalom!!!! he’s gonna drive us to kill ourselves If we don’t do it his way , hahaha you so funny and stupid . Lol hilarious …

      • DustInTheWind says:

        Yes Shalom I agree and already blew Batsi out of the water a long time ago and mentioned his catholic training, methodist, hip-hop, voo doo whatever it was upbringing… that was said to impress us I think.. but I’d have a much easier time trusting and believing a bar fighting, whiskey drinking redneck truck driver that got saved than someone who has bounced all over the board in religion.

        Not too focussed on Gary… he is just opening up on a blog to strangers which doesn’t make sense to me…

      • DustInTheWind says:

        I complained to the SA brothers about it and went to bat for the brother out in Canada who thought he was having a private conversation which ended up being posted… why dya think I am after Gary to shut his mouth on here?

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Sis Cal,

        Why do you remind me so much of the poster called sis Rita?

        Until you have looked death in the face, I don’t see how you can understand the pressure the nicolaitains can put on people. And for your benefit, it wasn’t me that drove the brother to the point of suicide: that came from those applying denominational pressure which he thought was his friends. They applied the same denominational pressure to me, so I know how intense they can be. So yes I agree with you. Your denomination should be ashamed for putting political pressure on other ministers to come against those it hates, and sowing discord on the laity by claiming they are evil just to cover up their own misdeeds. In your words, that was pretty pathetic of them to do that. I’m glad you think so as well.

        As for repentance, you can’t even say yourself that any repentance of their attacking the saints of God has occurred. Why is that? Is it because you know they are still attacking the saints of God with underhanded tactics?

        As for being backslide, you seem to be the most backslide person posting on this “blog” at the moment. You post under many different names acting like you are different people and demand answers of others, but refusing to answer the simplest questions put to you. You are so eat up with pride and denominational-ism, you can’t even tell you are eat up with the same religious spirit the Pharisees were eat up with when they killed the manifested Word. Then the most convincing evidence of your backslide condition is you claiming everyone is more evil than yourself, so you will not have to repent of your own sins. Hmmm… that kind of makes me wonder if you was the same person that told Tsanning that you weren’t even a Christian.

        Isn’t that the definition of a hypocrite? You think you know how everyone else should live, but you and your denomination is incapable of living by the standard you try to hold everyone else to? Oh that’s right. When you know your denomination has intentionally murdered other people to cover up their sins, you blame the people you don’t like of being guilty of what you know they did. Is that like having your cake and eating it too?

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Bro DustInTheWind,

        Do you think Bro Madiba and Bro Batsi are just imposters posing as believers? They do have the same nicolaitain dogma and creed of the ones that schooled them claiming that the Word has no place or say in how the church of the Living God should be operated.

        I’ve heard certain “leaders” say over and over that in general the laity have no value other than to just to pay the light bill while they live high on the hog. It’s funny how they appreciate them more when they realize they ain’t there to foot the bill anymore. Jesus Christ told the ministry they are to be servants of the flock, but they have made themselves overlords of God’s heritage fleecing the sheep for filthy lucre directly contrary to I Peter 5.

  75. Bro. Madiba says:

    Shalom,

    DustIntheWind I personally took your advice when you said one should remain in prayer rather than blogging about allegations against a brother.

    Both Ed and Lance are our brothers and we should pray for them rather than putting dirt on either. I admire you maturity not to go off the chains regarding the treatment you endured in the past, and some of us we have taken key lessons from your conduct. You know people who wronged you but you decided to forgive with them even asking for forgiveness. I mean what you described in a nutshell equates to degradation of your character.

    I guess that Bro Gary should wake up realize that these engagements have no eternal value.

    Let us pray for each other more rather harp on things that we either have partial or no information on. Please, pray for Brother Gary as when all is said and done he is just a poor soul that needs acccess to the Rapture flight, and i just hope we have booked a seat on the rapture flight irrespective of which leader we are aligned to but being cognisant that we to align to the Heavenly Pilot Jesus Christ.

    We love you all.

    • DustInTheWind says:

      Bro Madiba,
      Thank you for the kind comments. Everybody is guilty of something I guess, the flesh would love to bare knuckle it out with a few of these so called “spiritual” brothers who in times past attacked and
      murdered me…but to be honest in my heart…deep down….I do forgive them…it depends on which day you catch me! It’s like that sign I saw once…”This house is guarded by Smith & We

    • DustInTheWind says:

      …..whoops….to finish my sentence…..”This house is guarded by a Smith & Wesson rifle 3 days of the week….you guess which 3!!!! There are those of us who act a little bit like a pansy or delicate flower, such as Gary….then there are those that act like red blooded real men who are willing to bare knuckle it out…. I guess I should become more “delicate”!??
      Anyways Bro Madiba, I did watch your preaching on the video clip you sent, I really enjoyed it, watched it in my truck on the way home from work and will admit, it was a blessing to me! Take care!

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Bro Madiba,

      Just look at the facts.

      This whole blog is your creation. The bringing up of unfounded dirt and false accusations based on guess work is your creation on this blog. As long as you leave this blog up, it serves as a reminder that you are more guilty than anyone else of anything you can claim they did or didn’t do on your blog.

      Yes, I realize it is opened in another person’s name, but didn’t you ask him to do this for you?

      And what is the motivation for you to start such a blog? Was is really to do the right thing, or was it rather to get a feather in your hat by pushing someone you didn’t know down as low as you could to get accolades by someone more popular than yourself because you heard the popular person attacking the one you didn’t know?

      As long as you leave this blog open, it only serves as a reminder that you are not innocent of what you don’t want to be guilty of. Yes, I realize that all humans are capable of mistakes (especially when doing things without thinking them through with prayer) but why would you want to purposely leave them up for a stumbling-block of others to dwell on for years to come?

      I can’t force you to do a thing, but as you probably know by now I can clearly express what I see your actions or the lack thereof is doing to the kingdom you claim to be a part of.

  76. DustInTheWind says:

    Bro ShalomShalom,

    I understand entirely what you mean. I DO think Gary is the wrong one though to take up for the different ones based on his past track record of dealings with people and his relentless judgement on situations and accusations that were never made right even with evidence right in front of him, talking from my own experiences that caused me tremendous grief and pain. The worst part of an argument is when all of the sudden when there comes a point when you realize you are wrong! I got charged by Gary years back with something that NEVER existed, my word of truth was trampled on with disregard, the hell and pain I went thru at the hands of Gary, was never made right even tho the one he was “standing up for” went to him and told him it was all lies concerning this situation and I was being falsely accused. It was swept under the carpet and all I got when I asked for it to be made right was….”It’s better to let a sleeping dog lie (lay)… Then a year later I bump into him and his words were…”is your gut full of the world yet?” Then he grabs his gut and smirks and walks away. This is why I don’t trust Gary. He operates on his own self centered justification. He couldn’t even man up enough to apologize and make it right, instead he left me for dead! Arrogance is not of God. What if some of the things he says on here are dead wrong? The ones he has attacked are the ones who end up living their life with that horrible taste of bitterness in their GUT and our “precious” brother Gary gets to carry on as if nothing happened??

  77. DustInTheWind says:

    But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea. (KJV)

    But whoso shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, it is profitable for him that a great millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depth of the sea. (American Standard)

    But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.(New International)

    No pun intended but I think Gary White is SUNK! You want to talk about molestation in the church?? This is IT! Spiritual molestation! Guess who got to live with it for years and tried to deal with it while the “molester” carried on with their life as if nothing happened? Don’t kid yourself… as I said before… I’d love to come in and bomb a few people due to what THEY have done to myself… but I see a big wheel turning and hear of what they have gone thru… and I sit back and can’t help but think… is it payback time and the revenge is not even coming from me but from above? Some of the things I have heard certain ones have gone thru blows my mind… then I wonder if they ever think of ME when they had my neck in their hands with their claws dug in… choking out the life and bleeding me out.
    See this was all back when these certain individuals were the “teachers pet” still… but now with the situations that have arisen over the past couple years… there is NO “teachers pet” relations anymore.
    You know when a kid gets picked on in school for years… and takes it and takes it from schoolyard bullies, and years go by, school is done… then one day when they least expect it… they bump into the one they beat up and picked on and spit on and he’s all grown up… not a skinny little helpless kid anymore.. but grown into a broad shouldered, 6ft something, muscley, red blooded successful man…. guess who gets the beating NOW… and the kid who got picked on who grew up terrified in school (church) gets the last laugh… because his abusers have all gotten older, they haven’t changed, they are more pathetic now than they were then, and they are scared… because NOW their mind is scrambling trying to remember what they did to this certain kid, and they are scared of what that kid might possibly do to them.
    I agree that this blog shouldn’t have been started the way it was by brothers overseas who have no clue of whats going on etc… but Gary was more than happy to open up his “gut” and let all the garbage pour out to absolute strangers… that’s what makes me shake my head. Start a blog of your own and control who comes and goes… those guys overseas have as much to do with CBW or LWF as you do with their personal married bedroom life…. absolutely NOTHING!! Yet Gary let total strangers into HIS “bedroom” and answered anything that ANYBODY would ask him in DETAIL! TOTAL STRANGERS!!!
    There are wonderful people on both sides of the fence that has been built between CBW and LWF… but from my viewpoint I see it turning denominational… if you don’t go to OUR church you’re not one of His. Yes I have heard the Oct 3 service and that was dead wrong of Bro Ed… the Balaam thing… the Tony thing… the hireling thing… blah blah… I am sure it is something he has come to regret for saying… but that’s where I guess you find God for yourself. If Ed kicked the bucket today… would everyone be LOST and headed to hell? I rather doubt it! Would they stay and listen to Tom and John? I doubt a lot would! If Lance dropped off… would those folks be LOST? I doubt it! All the spewing and “corrective love” Gary is showing is not helping anyone. That boy needs to learn to shut up already… or just have someone cut out his tongue and staple it to his forehead… his wisdom is lacking… he attacks the very person that used to pat him on the back and said “good boy” to.
    No wonder Bro Branham didn’t really HANG with church folk alot… but rather head off to the hills or mountains or rivers… to find God for himself… what I’ve seen here… and my own experiences of the past with “brothers” in positions of deacons or preachers etc… I wouldn’t want to spend 5 minutes having a coffee with most of them nevermind eternity STUCK with them if this is how they run peoples lives.
    A man without character can’t reign because power apart from character is Satanic… that’s a direct quote from Bro Branham… was he talking about world leaders? Was that meant for them? That’d be too obvious! Or, was he throwing it to the “Believers” and the inner workings of a church? Much safer to be a nobody and walk with God alone in spite of our filthy sin filled forgiven flesh… than to stand up and ACT like you are a hot shot in the “message” and eventually fall and end up all these years later doing nothing but attacking the very ones you used to love and adore. Pathetic for ALL parties involved!

    (START YOUR OWN BLOG IF NEED BE AND DON’T LET OVERSEAS STRANGERS INTO YOUR BEDROOM! SICK!!!)

    • ShalomShalom says:

      I know Bro Branham said when a man leaves the Word, you leave the man. However, I haven’t found any place where he said if a man has left the Word and you lost confidence in him, you are to leave the Word.

      I can understand how some can leave a church because they or their loved ones were done totally wrong, but for the life of me I can’t see any justification for them to turn their backs on the Word or God. It was not God or the Word that done them wrong. It was only a man of flesh that did that. God even told us in His Word, that men like that would treat you wrong on purpose. He even told us that one day they will even kill you thinking they are doing God a service (John 16:2). Just because you have been murdered by someone that went to a church is no reason for you to turn your back on the Present Day Word. I have been murdered by them myself and I haven’t left the Word.

      Bro Branham was a prophet and he prophesied in 60-1207 concerning a brother that would do nothing but talk bad about the Message for years to come. However, he thanked God for him and said the brother certainly has a great gift from the Lord. In fact, he said no matter how bad the person is and how bad they talk about you, don’t you never think evil in your heart against them, ’cause right there the Devil will set right in.

      For example, every single person on this blog knows the name of the person that drove me to the edge of that bridge by denominational pressure and deliberate lies spread to other ministers, but I don’t wish him any harm. Nor do I think any evil in my heart towards him even though he has never repented of his actions. I just believe he was immature. Hopefully, he will change his ways before he reaches the White Throne. I don’t want that poor fellow to be cast away, would you? Certainly not, no matter who they are. You wouldn’t want that, so try to be kind to them.

      • DustInTheWind says:

        I really enjoy your view on things Shalom. Thanks for sharing some of your own past. Not sure what you’re talking about with this bridge you jumped off or who it was that pushed you to the edge… regards….

      • Cal says:

        If I remind you if Rita , than great . Am not gonna convince you to believe that am not Rita , so waterer… And yes I might seem to be the most backsliding person in this blog , but here is the truth, you and me are both in the same boat , oh yes we are . You know , why , because we are doing the same things . You are here to prove and make a point , and am doing the same . So I guess you just called yourself a backslider too. I don’t what what questions you asked me that I dud not answer. But on the contrary I asked you few questions and I still did not get answers from you.. And they was attacts coming from both side of the groups , cbw and livingword . So I don’t know why , you think cbw should repent of their attacks and not lvwf … By that I just wanna show you , that both group at some point did things that were not right , said hurtfull things against each other , but did is just the human thing to do . We are not perfect . Yes both group don’t stand spotless to me , but let not dwell on that . It’s happen , move on already …. Stop blogging and especially when you have nothing to do with it at alll . I don’t know why you so involve in this so much . The truth is that the way the split was done was wrong , and there is a lot if fabricated stories, and yes brother Ed made his mistakes , but then who doesn’t sin?? You?? Just give a break to this blog , please get a life

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Well sister waterer (lol),

        I know you are not going to try to convince others that you are not Rita, ’cause you can’t or you are afraid of what else will come out about your sweet little self.

        As for us being the same, we are opposites. You are out of your place trying to take authority over the brothers (I Tim 2:12.) I am here pointing out the hypocrisy of those on the attack. You are here trying to impress people to get an ‘atta girl’. Believe me, I know I ain’t gaining any favors by what I did on here. More than likely more persecution is headed my way. I am not here to make a mere point. My sole desire and purpose is Mt 3:15. I could care less about points or favoritism. That lasts a very very short time. Then what? nothing.

        Some people will more than gladly treat you like an orange. They’ll suck all the juice out of you and then cast peel to the side as discarded waste.

        I know beyond a shadow of a doubt anyone can point out a fanatic in a crowd of believers, but as it has been pointed out to us by the prophet… It wasn’t a miracle that Luther could protest the Catholic Church and get by with it, but the greatest mystery, he could hold his head above all the fanaticism that followed his revival and stay with the Word. There is a stark difference when the very leadership of a group is on the attack like a rabid animal, and you pointing out a person that isn’t even in the message and blaming the opposite side for their shortcomings. That is extremely biased and hypocritical. Even you would have to admit that if you cared to be honest.

        As for why things weren’t done right, you know why they weren’t. A man refused to follow the Word, and therefore just like Polycarp in the Church Age Book on page 190 a group had to move out in order to stay with the Word. If a man in that position refuses to obey the Word, what other choice does a person have?

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Bro DustInTheWind,

        It’s like I said before. “We all have our own personal sob stories.” If Cal wouldn’t have asked what she didn’t want to know, you probably wouldn’t heard about the one Cal tried to twist.

  78. Gary White says:

    Bro Shalom

    Would you like to move BC & make CBW your home church now. We are hearing from the womens aglo movement there, with all these sisters sharing there humble & meek spirits. Have you ever wondered how Elijah could run from the threat of one woman? wonder no more, its very intimidating & scary isnt it. I hope Elijah has room for us in his cave.

    Seriusly bros & sis please stop this. Whats wrong with agreeing to disagree. Bro Branham says just because some one disagrees with us we puff up like a frog full of buch shot.

    I am not sure who you all are, so how in the world am I supossed know what you are talking about when you say I have riuned your lives. How am I am supossed to know how to appologise.???

    God have mercy on you, & God Bless GW

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Bro,

      You better be careful there. I seen where one sweet lil sis said she was going to have you voted out of her fellowship, and she didn’t care how many times she had to vote to accomplish this even if that meant she had to assume a multitude nicknames to make others think there was a host of people against you.

      Wow if you don’t think one person can vote more than once, just look how many negative votes this little comment will generate from one person voting.

      If it is any consultation Bro Branham said,
      “You can’t put me out, ’cause God put me in. See, so you can’t — can’t put me out, so that’s the way we’re going to do. See, believe that.”

    • Cal says:

      Uhm I don’t have many nicknames , dear.. Soo uhmm don’t know what you’re talking about .am still wanting , you all to just give a break to this blog , including myself . I don’t know how you guys did it for this long , every single day , commenting on this thing…. I still believe that bro Gary should really leave this blog, you too shalom . I really don’t know why you so concern , it’s still a mystery to me … Thank you

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Many is a relative term, and your willfull ignorance must be bliss.

        If you want a break all you have to do is go away. Nobody is holding you here.

        Some things will always be a mystery to those who refuse to see.

  79. DustInTheWind says:

    My point exactly Gary!! It really sucks when the kid who was bullied grows up and years later the bully (you) is wetting his pants because he can’t remember which person he messed with or what evil deeds were done!! Woulda been better to shut up and not post don’t ya think? Have a wonderful and restful sleep Gary!!! You’ve never been awake anyways!!! I feel bad for your family….they must be ashamed and really wondering what “daddy” has been up to all this time!!!!

  80. Gary White says:

    Bro Batsi & Bro Madiba

    I would like to talk privatly with you if thats ok. Do you have my email??

    God Bless GW

  81. DustInTheWind says:

    I am in agreement with that….now delete the entire blog as well and let people go….

  82. DustInTheWind says:

    Bro Shalom,
    I’m in agreement with you with what you are saying…my ONLY beef was simply…Why does Gary open up himself on a blog started by total strangers?? Bro Madiba and Batsi have NOTHING to do with what occurred in BC and I think Gary is in the wrong to go dump his “guts” to whoever will listen. I completely did NOT agree with Bro Madiba or Batsi from the start when I saw them post a private conversation from a brother who asked for it to be kept quiet.
    I completely do NOT agree with them nor do I agree with what Bro Ed has said and done! At the same time, even though Gary has made valid points which I do agree with, he shouldnt be the one to say those things on a strangers blog! He doesn’t have a clue who those brothers are. Then to start in with drums, women’s aglow, etc etc….what does THAT have to do with anything on here? Gary is attacking all the way around and I’m simply saying…clean the garbage off your own porch before you clean someone else’s. The hurt he is causing people on both sides of the split by not shutting up is probably immense. How can this be a “win win” situation as Gary said if he keeps attacking? As I said before, I know what Gary is like…he’s the wrong person to be talking or bringing things out. If anything it should be on a local blog not a strangers from overseas…and it should be done by someone who has a proven track record of love and forgiveness and humility….

    • ShalomShalom says:

      “Bro Madiba and Batsi have NOTHING to do with what occurred in BC ”

      Brother, how can you say that? The spirit they are under has everything to do with what occurred. It is the spirit to totally reject the Word and the Holy Spirit leadership in favor of man made control and domination. It is the spirit that the only people that are the sons of God are those who had managed to commandeer a pulpit and everyone else is only in existence to cater to their every desire. Go listen to the Church Ages Bro Branham preached. He blasted that thing from one end to the other.

      It is never the person. It is always the spirit that is behind the thing.

      If someone finds themselves anointed with a bad spirit, they need to have that spirit removed from them. If they never had this pointed out by the Holy Spirit (perhaps through other vessels of God) how will they ever know they need help and deliverance?

      • DustInTheWind says:

        Bro Shalom,

        I’m agreeing with you, I meant Madiba and Batsi had no business to start this blog was all. No one knew who they were until this blog got started basically, why do u think Gary needed to be shut up? He was willing to say anything to anybody who would listen….and shouldn’t have been saying anything on THIS blog or answering to Batsi or Bro Madiba after we saw how that one brother had his private conversation posted by Batsi. Anyways….I’m in agreement with ya bro…but that pulpit that got commandeered and people in existence to cater to their desires….if ya hear of any excess or crumbs falling from the table….could u lemme know? I could really use an all inclusive trip somewhere hot to get a nice tan and if its free or on someone else’s sweat is always a good price! (smirk)

      • Cal says:

        Shalom as I said before , I see you and Gary are the ones that really wants confusion on thus thing , you just want to keep it going , at list Gary kind of stop for a bit cause he realized that he’s the wrong personh to point fingers. Now , we have you left , accusing me of twisting things , tell me what did I twist ?? At list the brothers from south Africa know brother Ed , but do you know him ?? Have you spoken to him and asked him question and heard his side of the story ??? All you have is second hands informations and you are running your mouth with it thinking you have some kind of spiritual mind , nomesense … And how come you are on this blog since it’s started every single day , what part do you have to play with the church split , that you have to be so driven to give your stupid answers to everyone ??? Do you have a family ??? You dont even need to have a family to realize that this thing is time consuming , but if you have one it means you should really focuse on them , please do that . My main concern was Gary white , but since he’s kind of stop , it makes me happy , cause at least he’s realizing he’s not all that perfect and now it’s your turn to do so.. And Am out of here , even the two brothers from south Africa who started this thing are not on here like you are , you so weird .. Find friends , go out , please do something …. This is probably my last post , I can’t be on this blog everyday like shalom . People who do that have no lives and I have a life .. Go out with my friends and spent time with my family , and pray better this thing is a distraction.. You just got no life that is my conclusion, and probably lonelly ….. Oh maybe not , your are just driven by some kind of power … Lol . Bye bye

      • Cal says:

        Uhm , shalom I don’t know you , don’t know anybody but Gary white on this blog . So hereby if I wad Rita , I would not be afraid of not you or not one , cause y’all aren’t gonna hurt me in no way . So you must be very stupid to think like that , why would I be afraid to say am Rita on the blog ?? What’s gonna happen , and if I was Rita and I said am Rita what are you gonna fo about it ??? I guess
        Nothing wright ?? Yeah. That’s what I thought , nothing would be done about it . But you no what , I am not afraid to stand for what I think is wright , and that is why am this stupid thing . But as for being Rita , I ain’t her , don’t have a clue who she’s , so press a delete button in your weird hear and delete that tought , cause you really looking stupid and like a fool saying I am afraid , nonsense this is the Internet no one knows me and it Wont matter … So why would I be afraid ??? I’ve always been a straight forward person ,if I knew you and saw you I will tell you that I think you are doing wrong . Just because I am a women it does not mean I can’t say what I think , and by the way this blog wasn’t here for guys alone it’s for anyone … So like it it not , there us gonna women that will post they comments on here ,silly minds…

      • Cal says:

        I see you a verry proud to say that you are in the message and am not ( I am ) . But anyways let someone who’s a complete unbeliever somehow come across this blog , it will be a shame to see the people who are claiming to have the best message and they gonna have their body changed , let them come and read what kind of confusion is on this blog and we’ll see if the’ll want to be converted … the confusion that all us have done including you shalom , you think you gotta it all figure out (hah) I laugh …

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Bro DustInTheWind,

        It is your opinion that the ones who started this blog should be allowed to continue on believing a lie and be damned in the end? Where is mercy in that?

        The brother tried to bring their attention to the truth, but they turned a blind eye. At least he tried to get them to see the light. However, if people are willfully blind, I suppose you can’t help them.

        What’s that saying again?

        Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely!

        They are blinded becuase their hold on power has been questioned by the Word.

  83. DustInTheWind says:

    I think I will put this thing to bed….again! I’ll do my utmost best to not comment any further! It ends up being nothing but a cat fight between everyone. After all…all we are in the end is dust in the wind and none of us would make it without the blood…thankfully we don’t take the rotten flesh with us! Maybe if anything a few of us learned from this past week or two on this blog is how the tongue (pen, keyboard) can really hurt others and how it’s not such a nice feeling…it’s a horrible feeling to be “murdered” and live thru it! Take care y’all… see ya at the river!

  84. fred says:

    I would make church once every month.
    Once a week is way too often – it’s not good to see the same people every week.
    With church, people see each other every week, for years. That’s not how I would do it.

    And I would get people to think for themselves more. Get people to come up with their own ways of doing things instead of ‘STAND UP SIT DOWN SING SONG #24 STAND UP SIT DOWN .

    Instead of church being like school, with a teacher, I would have it like a correspondence course, where everyone learns on their own. And once a month, there would be fellowship.

  85. Gary White says:

    Dear Folks

    I see where in a recent post of mine, I was to detailed in naming the kind of indescretions that were comited, it was very much in keeping with answereing the question that was presented to me. Never the less it was in sinsitive of me & I appologise to Bro Ed & to any one else that was offended.

    Now to the Bro that says that I asked if he has had a gut full of the world yet. I cant remember saying that & I am not 100% of who you are. Never the less if I said it I can see where that would also be an insensitive statement. So forgive please.

    I am a little confussed with some of the staments, it seems that you came to me wanting to get an appology from the ministry & I told you that its best to let sleeping dogs lie. Other times its seems you wanted me to appologise? Futher more as I said earlier when you were using a another name I can honestly tell you again that I dont know the situations of which you are speaking about.

    Now on to Cal & I dont care, I have asked you to tell me who you are & to tell me exactly about the evils that I & my family are guilty of, other than just generalities defaming our character & testimony. If you dont wont to talk personaly Then speak publickly, I dont think that its right but I am open the flour to you now.

    I & others very much tried to talk to Bro Ed privatly about our concerns to no avail. Bro Ed has gone just as publick about this as any one. If I am bro Eds enemy then I think he is a very fortunate man, in my opinion I am still one of his freinds.

    Bro Madiba I have in my posation the transcript off the inter net Aug 7 where the elders tried to get Bro Ed to alow Bro Donny Reagen & bro Tim Pruit to come & help mediate in the situation. I am very impressed with the contents of the letter. I dont put the same amount of wait on it that you do but its there for you if you care.

    Bro Madiba please forgive me but I must say I am disappointed in how you sat silent while very harsh,crude,vulgar staments were being made. (verbal assaults,threats) I think are illegal. If you will do a quick review it easy to see how VIOLENT in nature they were; He will put me in a wheel chair, My tounge should be cut off & nailed to my fore head, He should take me for a trunk ride. He is like his house guarded by Smith & westion, using the word sucks, I am a sicko, fool, should be beaten, smacked up side the head, we executed people for the boss etc etc & then you say how wonderfull it is that he has forgiven me & dosent hold any grudges??????????????????????????????????????/

    Now the scriptures say not to recieve an acustion against an elder lest it be out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses,, after that its still just an acusation & needs to be investigated to find wether it be true are not. It seems most all off you are ready to recieve acussations against me by a bunch of people who dont have the courage to reveal who they are.

    I think its also important to bring up the scripture that we are to not rebuke an elder but entreat him as a father. I AM PREETY SURE THAT TO MOST OF YOU I AM
    YOUR ELDER. Now this dosent mean I cant be corrected, but the way most all of you are doing it is very disgracefull, I wouldnt even talk to serpent seed the way you all have behaved. Especialy you sisters, if you ever expect to get a husband, I mean a real man with the Holy Ghost you beter compare your self to the message & what it teaches on how a lady should act. Not an IRON disposition. Bro Bill says the bigest curse on the earth is a dominering female. Now I am not saying thats what you are but I am saying that we as belivers are not imune from these last days spirits. Same with us Bros, the same spirit that wants to masculine you wants to feminise me.

    Also I am willing to stand with every word that have spoken here, & still belive there will be helpfull benifits to the Bride in the future. They got mad at JESEUS because he healed folks on the Sabath, I say they didnt want Him to heal on any other day of the week as well. The wisdom of saying these things in puplic can be debated I admit, But I think the devil wouldnt wont them said any where at any time, on any forum or on the Sabath. Why because men love darkness more than the light.

    Now as a caution to you I will not respond to any coments that are not done so respectivly, maturely & with kindness even if you have to fake it. I refuse to be drug into a PITTBULL type religeon. Bitterness is a very seriouse trap to fall in to, no matter how right you are or right you & I think we are it will eventually kill us in every way.

    In His service GW

  86. DustInTheWind says:

    I respect what you said Gary. Don’t worry…the trunk ride and the Smith and Wesson and nailing your tongue to your forehead were, you’re not in any danger, I’ve had years to carry out those acts if I wanted to and so far no one has shown up on your door to harm you in any way, have they? It was not a threat it was a term. The smack upside the head? Well, that’s just a wake up call but that hasn’t happened either. Gary, I’d never hurt you or your family physically…but I’d definitely give you both barrels TODAY if you hurt me like you did back then. I DO admire that you are open enough to apologize to “ghosts” on the Internet and stand in front of a firing squad. The only reason I don’t reveal who I am is because it’s pointless and would hurt family and friends! I do appreciate your attempt to repent and make things right while having a bag put on your head and hit from all sides with a stick. We all vary in our walk…different values etc… just be happy I was a young brother back then and not who I am today! The wheelchair might have been your best friend due to the carrying out of orders from the top along with a few other of your cohorts. I’ve totally lost trust in ANY man and will NEVER be subservient or UNDER any man again….not ever!!! It might sound tough…but I’m no pushover…could care less to shake hands and have a pat on the back from any “brother”! Yet I’ve got the heart of a lion and would be there in a heartbeat if ya needed me….yes even you Gary… not puffing myself up but you cannot BUY integrity and honesty ….it’s God given…. I’ve seen a lot of people BOUGHT!
    Take care Gary and thanks!! We’ll catch craw dad together someday on the other side I hope!

  87. Gary White says:

    Dear bro Dust in the Wind

    You have brought tears to my eyes. Just for that I might even share some of my fishing worms with you if you should happen to run out.

    Be Blessed in the Lord Sinserely GW

  88. DustInTheWind says:

    P.S. Gary, I came to YOU wanting an apology from YOU and the ministry who put u up to accusing me, that’s when u said it’s better to let a sleeping dog lay. I was dumbfounded! I begged Bro Ed to use his gift of discernment he claims he has….I have the same gift so I know how it works. All I got back was a “how dare you contest a son of God?” I said “but aren’t I a son if God too?” Gary, you carried out orders to investigate, you did, you were provided proof way beyond truth…yet you buried me! I asked for YOU to make it right so I could forgive you! I asked for you to get the ministry to make it right so I could forgive and carry on walking in the Lord. You told me it’s better to let a sleeping dog lay. Then u saw me a year later at Lynden Fair and asked if my gut was full of the world yet! I had given up at that point…my wife was blown away…the whole 9 yards!!!!

  89. DustInTheWind says:

    We gave up and left! Yes…a few other deacons have also buried us with complete falsehoods! It seemed like we were targets! It’s taken years to bury it! It’s unreal how an accusation can murder a person yet I remained breathing. I see the probs that are happening and I really believe God is taking care of it as my mother told me He would…but in His time! Gary I’m so soft on the inside to God but the flesh has grown so tough and pitbullish and street smart with people in the Message it’s unbelievable! God has only ever been as far away as I put Him, but for some reason, in spite of my failures and giving up, He has always been there for us!!! We are supposed to have each others backs, and like I said to my folks once, if I’m shaking a brothers hand saying Godbless and meaning it, and that brother stabs me in the neck with a knife, why do I wanna be around for it! We left! Afterall, you can’t live above your pastor right???

  90. DustInTheWind says:

    I remember my wonderful precious brother Charlie Drake came up to me after some of these horrible accusations and the ministry n deacons were out to get me….Charlie said “Brother…I believe every word you said…disregard them and God will deal with it” Well Brother Charlie left us shortly after! My wife and I have been beaten from pillar to post by ministry and deacons….even my honeymoon was attacked! I wish there were more men like Bro Charlie!!! Gary we gave up!!! God in His mercy has always been there for us! Once the blood has been applied you can’t in-apply it! It’s there for good! Gary I do forgive you in my heart deep down….I forgive all of y’all…it’s the flesh that wants to strike back even 20 yrs later…but in my heart…. I’d be the first guy to stand up for any if y’all on either side of this FENCE that’s been built between churches….that in itself is so pathetic as I look from the outside in….looking for more of God…and all I see is strife…nothing has changed!!!!

    Btw….I know how to fish!! I never use all the worms…usually give em away cuz I limit out fast n help others get their limit!!! (grins) I’ll say it…kills me….not in my pitbull nature…but Godbless you Bro Gary!!!! Forgive me for being so “pitbullish”. You’ll be surprised who’s THERE on THAT day Bro Branham said….so I guess we’ll both be just as surprised as each other. Ain’t that right? (smiles) Hope everyone makes it in spite of our flesh!! This world is hellish and empty and dead!

  91. DustInTheWind says:

    And I WILL say this to anybody reading…I’m an outsider now but I must say….Bro Lance Leroux is a wonderful brother…whatever anyone thinks about how the church he preaches at came to be….check yourself!! That man didn’t ask for THIS!!! He certainly is NOT a hireling or a Balaam!!! Bro Lance has NEVER shown anything to me but grace and love in the 25 yrs I’ve known him! I dont go to either church and there is no gain for me saying any if this….but THAT man is definitely not out to collect money or to be recognized! I’ve never once heard him say ANYTHING derogatory against ANYBODY no matter how he’s been attacked and I take my hat off to him. NO I do NOT go to LWF!!!! No gain here

  92. Temba says:

    All these statements just show what kind of message we believe in!!! its so sad that we get to such lengths with each other. So sad!!!

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Bro,

      There are three kinds of believers in every crowd. The other two don’t like it very much when the standard is raised.

  93. DustInTheWind says:

    Bro Madiba,

    Do you think it would be possible now that this blog just be deleted seeing as that everyone has had their FILL of each others opinions by now? It’s kind of a shameful reminder to all of us and whomever might see it that we ALL have failed and fallen short in our flesh lead lives. ALL of what’s been discussed on here is certainly not something that any of us are proud of and I feel there is no need to leave this “lighthouse of flesh and failures” standing for the whole world to see. Just a thought…it really is only a reminder of how we fail God AND each other, everyday, in our flesh! Thanks for your consideration.

  94. Gary White says:

    Leave mine.

  95. DustInTheWind says:

    Why bother Gary? What’s the personal gain? Ain’t it all about forgive n forget? There comes a time to just “let a sleeping dog lay”…ain’t this THAT time? I guess we are forgiven as WE forgive….then there are those that are nearly impossible to forgive cuz they can hardly forgive others!!! I say…leave it…delete the trash….and not let the whole world see your backside!! I heard a song once called …Get Over It…. Yah it’s rough around the edges but come on Gary….man up and walk what ya talk! Anything otherwise proves ya ain’t got it! Forgive n forget! Otherwise don’t ya think maybe you been listening to a different voice? I say delete it n uplift…n forgive!!! Forget about it all! Cheer everyone on no matter what your hurt!!!

  96. One who wants more of Him in me... says:

    As I read the comments on this site, I am sitting thinking about the character of christianity that the Bible talks about and that Brother Branham taught and lived.
    I think about the time that Jesus was here on this earth, ministering to the world.
    He taught confession and repentance….a total cleaning up of our lives from the sin and iniquity that we as humans were born into. He talked about forgiveness….His kind of forgiveness…throwing our wrongs into the sea of forgetfulness and never to be brought against us again. He talked about His attributes, His nature, His Holy Spirit living inside us, where there is no longer our nature living, but only His. And He talked about love, a love that in our human selves, we cannot achieve, but through a complete change, a complete transformation, as we leave ourselves behind and take on His Spirit living inside us, manifesting Himself through us we become a part of him. His Bride. And only His Bride will have the above, no one else, so I think to myself, Lord, there is no one righteous but You, Lord we are born in sin and shaped into iniquity, and only You can change us to become what you called us to be, what we are predesdinated to be. We have all slipped, we have all made mistakes, and we are what we are, BUT we, none of us have to remain that way. I am not a part of Cloverdale, I do not know all the details, but there is nowhere in this world or in the fellowships around where there hasn’t been distresses and heartbreaks. I know, I have been in this message and a christian for 45 years now. My thoughts that I have just written are to the ones who have written above me; we can let it go, we can forgive and we can move on together and in ourselves. We can because He made a way for each and every one of us and He said that we can. So let us make it happen and let Him change us all that in all this, the change within us can become a living testimony to those looking on and those who don’t know Him like we would want them to. Come on brothers, come on sisters, lets move on, lets clean up, lets forgive, lets love once again, just once more Lord, should be our cry and watch as our precious Lord works miraculously within us all. With much love to you all.

  97. ShalomShalom says:

    Amen brother.

    We should all hold and maintain the standard of grace and love. Without Christ’s mercy and grace none of us would have a chance.

    In the cases of grace and mercy being extended as our examples in the Bible, the people that received the grace and mercy was shown they didn’t have to remain in the filth and mire while claiming to be in grace. Furthermore, those receiving the grace and mercy wasn’t interested in slamming the other saints of God maintaining the standard of the Word in order to hold on to an empire or to justify those holding church offices in their midst remaining in filth without repentance.

    To borrow a quote from John Bradford.
    “‘There, but for the grace of God, goes…” I.

  98. Gary White says:

    Amen brother, probably no truer words were ever spoken.

    God bless GW

  99. ShalomShalom says:

    I have noticed that some of the comments I have posted in the past are missing from this page.

    Does this mean those running this blog aren’t as hosest and open as they would like for us to believe?

  100. DustInTheWind says:

    Hey shalomshalom,
    I still haven’t had an answer about deleting this entire website cept from Gary, who wanted to keep his remarks up,
    Pretty easy to be a believer around a lot of other believers….but when’s the last time a person extended a hand to a poor soul without blasting them with the Message or their “version” of the “message”!!?? Boy religious people make me sick!! Live REAL!!!! So glad I’m not a part of this insanity anymore!!!

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Bro.

      I don’t understand why you need an answer from Bro Gary. This isn’t his site. He has no control over it. That would be up to Bro Madibawitbank and his protege.

      As for lending helping hands, that’s something a person does without bragging about it. If a person wants to brag about what a great thing they did, then they really weren’t trying to help: they were only boosting their own ego. If a person hasn’t experienced a helping hand himself, or if he has never bothered to help another, I suppose he wouldn’t think others lend helping hands without an ulterior motives.

      I suppose if advise was to be given, the best advise would be to pass along the cure instead of trying to spread the sickness. Why not give the helping hand yourself without expecting anything in return? Forgive those you think done you wrong. I have.

  101. DustInTheWind says:

    I wasn’t looking for an answer from Bro Gary… I said that he’s the only one that responded to my post about this site being shut down….Bro Madiba was the one I sent the posting to…and as I said….I haven’t heard back…(shrugs) I think you read into it wrong. As far as you saying I should give a helping hand…..brother…..a million times already!!! It’d be nice to see this site shut down tho….it only stands as a reminder of how pathetic everyone is. Cheers.

  102. JustMe says:

    So this is what Christians have reduced themselves too??Bickering back and forth among believers! What kind of legacy and example are you older folks leaving for us, the young people?? Do you ever wonder why so many young people just come to church to warm seats as opposed to being there because they are hungering for the word? We watch how things are handled in the church and it often makes us wonder what kind of Christianity this really is?

    When the world comes across such things on the net, what kind of example are we leaving for them?… definitely not one that Christ like.

    Why don’t we recognize that the devil is busy sowing seeds of discord among the brethren because he knows his time is up and right now he is probably laughing at the fact that he has successfully managed to cause an uproar between the saints over an unfortunate situation. Rather than throwing dirt at one another lets pray for one another(ministers and all)….the real enemy here is the devil and we should be fighting him, not each other.

    God Bless,

    A troubled young person

  103. Your Precious Brother says:

    God bless you all. let us not forget what happened in Jesus time. there was a lady who was caught in adultery { sounds familiar : ) } and was brought before Jesus by the church elders (sounds familiar too) i presume and Jesus told them, let he who has not sinned be the first to cast the first stone (or something like that if i can remember). so we all have our short comings, no one is perfect but by our fruits we shall be known. we should support our pastor as believers as the prophet said regardless of his faults. Bro. Branham gave us a good example when you view how he respected Bro. Neville so we all have no excuse at the day of judgment. Let us remember that Jesus said that whatever you do unto these little one you have done it unto me. according to my knowledge, there were some splits in Branham tabernacle… how did the prophet handle them? He called those brothers as brethren and Jesus said since they are not against us they are for us so to Bro Ed… God bless you and prosper your ways. i can say a lot about how the ministry in cloverdale has affected my personal life but i will when we meet in that meeting in the air. To the brethren in Living Word fellowship.., may God bless you too and be with you. i personally like bro. Rod’s singing and i would like to hear him sing once more so kindly avail some downloads : )

    let us not forget that everything works out for good to them that love God so i believe we all love Him so all that happened to bring glory to Him. we may not understand it now but we will later. it is just a matter of time. I am waiting to hear bro. Ed going to hold a service at Living Word fellowship and The pastor at Living Word going to hold a service at cloverdale.

    God bless you all.

    • ShalomShalom says:

      “let us not forget what happened in Jesus time. ”

      Yes, Jesus said ‘go and sin no more.’

      He didn’t say ‘go deamonize everyone around you and continue on in sin.’

      • Cal says:

        Ambaressed yet shalom ?? Now that Gary is starting to establish good terms with CBW ??? Haha …..” Deamonize everyone around you” is that what you do on this blog ??? Shame on you !!! This is why I kept asking you to leave this matter to people that came from both LWF and CBW , cause they were the ones concerned and affected not you .

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Dear woman preacher,

        I know where I stand. If you paid attention to the Word prehaps you would too.

        189-3 PERGAMEAN.CHURCH.AGE – CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.5
        Now this is not merely an assumption but an historical fact which we will prove by going back into history to about 36 A.D. and coming up to the Nicene Council of 325. When the Christians (mainly Jews by birth) were scattered abroad from Jerusalem they went everywhere preaching the Gospel, particularly in the synagogues. Thus within three years, or about in 36 A.D. the Gospel had been taken to Rome by Junius and Andronicus, who according to Romans 16:7 were apostles. The work flourished there for several years until the constant altercations of the Jews amongst themselves caused Emperor Claudius to expel them from Rome. With the Jews banished from that city the backbone of that little church was practically broken. Perhaps even the elders had been Jewish and so would be gone. The flock would be unattended and since the Word had not been written as a guide it would be very easy for this little flock to drift or be inundated by the philosophers and pagans of that day. With grievous wolves on the prowl, and the spirit of antichrist released, we find from history that this little church in Rome became hopelessly backslidden, and began to introduce pagan ceremonies under Christian titles.
        189-4 As the period of banishment lasted for 13 years, the founders, Junius and Andronicus, did not come back until 54 A.D. Imagine their horror to find a church with a Christian title that was woefully pagan. There were altars in the church upon which they placed incense and celebrated pagan rites. THE ESTALISHED LEADERS OF THAT CHURCH COULD NOT BE APPROACHED, SO WITH THE FEW WHO HAD TRIED TO REMAIN FAITHFUL THEY STARTED A NEW CHURCH, OR THE SECOND CHURCH OF ROME. God graciously worked amongst them by signs and wonders so that a third church was started. AND THOUGH THE FIRST CHURCH WAS REPROACHED FOR BEING PAGAN AND NOT CHRISTIAN IN ITS WORSHIP IT WOULD NOT GIVE UP ITS TITLE but remained and STILL REMAINS the First Church of Rome–The Roman Catholic Church.
        190-1 PERGAMEAN.CHURCH.AGE – CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.5
        Now the majority of us have the mistaken idea that any and all who call themselves Christians would be the target of the devil and consequently the brunt of governmental tyranny. But not so. THIS FIRST CHURCH HAD BEGAN TO THRIVE AND MULTIPLY SO IN NUMBERS THAT THE EMPERORS AND VARIOUS OFFICIALS OF THE GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY FAVORED THAT CHURCH FOR POLITICAL REASONS.
        THUS WHEN THE LEADERS OF THE FIRST CHURCH IN ROME FOUND THEMSELVES IN FAVOR, THEY TOOK THE OPPORTUNITY TO TURN THE GOVERNMENT AGAINST THE TRUE BELIEVERS AND DEMANDE THEIR PERSECUTION UNLESS THEY CAME INTO THEIR FOLD. One such bishop of the First Church of Rome was Anicetus who lived in the second century and was contemporary with Polycarp.
        When the venerable Polycarp heard that the First Christian Church of Rome was involved in pagan ceremonies and had corrupted the truth of the Gospel, he went there to implore them to change. He saw them prostrate themselves before images named after apostles and saints. He saw them light candles and burn incense on the altar. He saw them celebrate the Passover under the name Easter, where they elevated the disc shaped bread that honored the sun god, and then they poured the wine out as a libation to the gods. But this aged saint who had traveled 1500 miles could not arrest their downward plunge. God spoke through him just as he was leaving, “Ephraim is married to his idols, let him alone,” Hosea 4:15. Polycarp never more returned.

      • Cal says:

        “Dear preacher women” haha , is it wrong if a women told you what you Sonia wrong ?? You have the wrong understanding of it , and it’s obvious you have the wrong understanding of a lot of things …. But I just wanted to point you to what I’ve been saying all along .. Who knows what your problem was and is … But anyways you have your own issues ,so not gonna waste my time with you . But am happy that Gary White and CBW are starting to get along .. And now you look stupid ( sorry ) but it’s true

      • ShalomShalom says:

        I don’t know of a sister Sonia, so why would you call her wrong?

        Perhaps things are moving a little too quick for you.

        I did see that all the outreach of kindness mentioned is only done by one side, and I haven’t heard of any reciprocated. I suppose some things could go unsaid, but for the benefit of those who didn’t catch on, God allowed you to rant a little so things could be clarified a little more.

        Thanks for attacking those you don’t agree with. It helps clarify things for those who can understand.

        For example, if Israel is vilified over and over for pointing out the truth concerning those trying to destroy her, this does not make Israel the aggressor. Those trying to destroy Israel is the aggressor.

        Now that is clarified, let’s make another point.

        When Israel is nice to those who have tried to destroy her and is still bent on trying to destroy her, this does NOT justify the past actions of those trying to destroy Israel. Just because those trying to destroy Israel does not have the ability to repent and admit they were wrong in the past, does not automatically make Israel the one which did the wrong in the past. No, those trying to destroy and vilify Israel are in the wrong. Just because Israel is being nice to them doesn’t mean Israel is admitting the attackers did no wrong.

        Do you need further clarification?

  104. Gary White says:

    Dear precious bro

    Thanks for the kind words & admonishments. I am glad to say that I have noticed small slivers of hope where bros & sis are recognizing that no mater what we cant have anger in our hearts. I think that it is a start & hopefully just the begining for other revelations to follow.

    God bless Gary W

  105. I am your precious brother says:

    that is it brethren. we all want to be there on that glad morning. adn if you find bro. Gary or Bro. Ed don’t tell me that you won’t greet them. if you plan not to greet them then i can tell you right now that you won’t be there. But in that morning, we shall SINCERELY greet each other with no malice in our hearts and all that i believe starts here on earth. So brethren let us not allow the root of bitterness to creep in amongst us for we are all sinners saved by God’s grace. (How could you boast of anything, that you ever seen or done? how could you dare to claim as yours the victories God has won? where would you be had God not brought you to where you are now? ) That root of bitterness is the devil and he should never have room in our hearts.

    So let the fellowship we used to have with each other reign. Here is what i mean: If bro. Gary used to go hunting with bro. Ed, that should continue. and they should be just as jovial as they were before yet they still don’t go to the same church. The main thing is the fellowship. We should never loose that fellowship. and that is what the devil is aiming at. Of course the devil couldn’t do that if God had not allowed him to…… I believe God allows these things to happen so that we can show the substance we are made off. So we should be really careful how we react in such situations.

    Let us not forget that there is no coincidence. i did not come across this blog by coincidence….God planned it before i was even born in this world. He knew every word that i will write in this blog. So the events at cloverdale were no coincidence. Let us not forget that the whole community of believers worldwide is carefully watching to see what kind of fruits each plant will produce.
    ——————————–xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx———————————————–
    This is now to my canadian brethren…. you know Jesus was once invited by Simon the pharisee so that He could ashame Him but Jesus being God (oohh my) knew all Simon’s plans and above all He still honoured that invitation. And below is what the prophet said:

    WHY. BEAUMONT.TX FRIDAY_ 61-0125
    E-6 And then, the brother, with good intentions, with no ill feelings… And if some of the state men are here, presbyters or whatever it is, brethren, don’t do something evil that you’d be sorry of later. See, see? Be a Christian; be a gentleman. The little brother meant no harm. He was only trying to follow out and was thankful for a prayer being answered. That’s all it was, just being thankful for God answered his prayer. He didn’t mean to be evil, and he… I don’t think he is. He’s a good brother, fine, sweet brother.
    And then when his good brother, one of the… He belongs to the UPC, which is called among the people, “Oneness.” And some of the trinitarian-believing brethren come in. His heart’s hungry for fellowship, and when his trinitarian brother came, what was he… Nothing to do but put an arm around him. Now, brethren, if you excommunicate a man from your Assemblies for such as that, God have mercy on your sinful soul. When I get to a place, or any organization that can’t reach its arms out and get a brother from anywhere, God be merciful to you.

    EXPECTATION_ LONG.BEACH.CA TUESDAY_ 61-0207
    E-42 Simeon, this great old saint of God, he was a man of great reputation. Oh, today they happen to say, “But wait a minute, sir, I’m a businessman. I’m a doctor. I’m–I’m a professor.” You’re no better than anybody else. And whenever you think you’re better than somebody else, then you’re nothing that you ought to be, the Scripture says. See? When you get to a place… You got to… How can you have faith when you’re expecting honor one from another? See? You must prefer one another always. That’s the life of Christ, to prefer your brother, sister. And if they are wrong, that’s all right. You’ll never make them any better by kicking them around. Put an arm around and pick him up. I like this old time religion. I’ll tell you what it’ll do, it’ll–it’ll make a tuxedo suit set by a pair of overalls, and put their arm around one another, and call each other brother. That’s right. It’ll make a calico dress and a silk one call one another sister. It sure will: gun barrel straight and sky blue. And it–it’ll certainly do it.

    So Bro Gary the ball is right now in your court. If i were you, i would be happy to get such a chance to demonstrate who i am. I would have gone to Bro. Ed and put an arm around his shoulder and said “Look here Bro, though i don’t come to your church any more, i still love you and will be praying for you. In case you need any help from me, i will be ready to offer it. God bless you my bro. ” Then give him a good hand shake or something like that.

    So bro. Gary, don’t wait for Bro. Ed to come to you……you go to him. It may be hard to do but there is no easy victory and if you won’t be sincere with it don’t go. Just ask God to give you the sincerity and courage to do it.
    THEN WATCH WHAT WILL HAPPEN!!!

    To finish my post i will say quote the prophet’s words to each and everyone of us ……”When I get to a place, or any organization that can’t reach its arms out and get a brother from anywhere, God be merciful to you.”

    God bless you everyone.

    yours in Christ,

    your precious brother.

  106. I am your precious brother says:

    that is it brethren. we all want to be there on that glad morning. adn if you find bro. Gary or Bro. Ed don’t tell me that you won’t greet them. if you plan not to greet them then i can tell you right now that you won’t be there. But in that morning, we shall SINCERELY greet each other with no malice in our hearts and all that i believe starts here on earth. So brethren let us not allow the root of bitterness to creep in amongst us for we are all sinners saved by God’s grace. (How could you boast of anything, that you ever seen or done? how could you dare to claim as yours the victories God has won? where would you be had God not brought you to where you are now? ) That root of bitterness is the devil and he should never have room in our hearts.

    So let the fellowship we used to have with each other reign. Here is what i mean: If bro. Gary used to go hunting with bro. Ed, that should continue. and they should be just as jovial as they were before yet they still don’t go to the same church. The main thing is the fellowship. We should never loose that fellowship. and that is what the devil is aiming at. Of course the devil couldn’t do that if God had not allowed him to…… I believe God allows these things to happen so that we can show the substance we are made off. So we should be really careful how we react in such situations.

    Let us not forget that there is no coincidence. i did not come across this blog by coincidence….God planned it before i was even born in this world. He knew every word that i will write in this blog. So the events at cloverdale were no coincidence. Let us not forget that the whole community of believers worldwide is carefully watching to see what kind of fruits each plant will produce.
    ——————————–xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx———————————————–
    This is now to my canadian brethren…. you know Jesus was once invited by Simon the pharisee so that He could ashame Him but Jesus being God (oohh my) knew all Simon’s plans and above all He still honoured that invitation. And below is what the prophet said:

    WHY. BEAUMONT.TX FRIDAY_ 61-0125
    E-6 And then, the brother, with good intentions, with no ill feelings… And if some of the state men are here, presbyters or whatever it is, brethren, don’t do something evil that you’d be sorry of later. See, see? Be a Christian; be a gentleman. The little brother meant no harm. He was only trying to follow out and was thankful for a prayer being answered. That’s all it was, just being thankful for God answered his prayer. He didn’t mean to be evil, and he… I don’t think he is. He’s a good brother, fine, sweet brother.
    And then when his good brother, one of the… He belongs to the UPC, which is called among the people, “Oneness.” And some of the trinitarian-believing brethren come in. His heart’s hungry for fellowship, and when his trinitarian brother came, what was he… Nothing to do but put an arm around him. Now, brethren, if you excommunicate a man from your Assemblies for such as that, God have mercy on your sinful soul. When I get to a place, or any organization that can’t reach its arms out and get a brother from anywhere, God be merciful to you.

    EXPECTATION_ LONG.BEACH.CA TUESDAY_ 61-0207
    E-42 Simeon, this great old saint of God, he was a man of great reputation. Oh, today they happen to say, “But wait a minute, sir, I’m a businessman. I’m a doctor. I’m–I’m a professor.” You’re no better than anybody else. And whenever you think you’re better than somebody else, then you’re nothing that you ought to be, the Scripture says. See? When you get to a place… You got to… How can you have faith when you’re expecting honor one from another? See? You must prefer one another always. That’s the life of Christ, to prefer your brother, sister. And if they are wrong, that’s all right. You’ll never make them any better by kicking them around. Put an arm around and pick him up. I like this old time religion. I’ll tell you what it’ll do, it’ll–it’ll make a tuxedo suit set by a pair of overalls, and put their arm around one another, and call each other brother. That’s right. It’ll make a calico dress and a silk one call one another sister. It sure will: gun barrel straight and sky blue. And it–it’ll certainly do it.

    So Bro Gary the ball is right now in your court. If i were you, i would be happy to get such a chance to demonstrate who i am. I would have gone to Bro. Ed and put an arm around his shoulder and said “Look here Bro, though i don’t come to your church any more, i still love you and will be praying for you. In case you need any help from me, i will be ready to offer it. God bless you my bro. ” Then give him a good hand shake or something like that.

    So bro. Gary, don’t wait for Bro. Ed to come to you……you go to him. It may be hard to do but there is no easy victory and if you won’t be sincere with it don’t go. Just ask God to give you the sincerity and courage to do it.
    THEN WATCH WHAT WILL HAPPEN!!!

    To finish my post i will say quote the prophet’s words to each and everyone of us ……”When I get to a place, or any organization that can’t reach its arms out and get a brother from anywhere, God be merciful to you.”

    God bless you everyone.

    yours in Christ,

    your precious brother.

  107. Gary White says:

    Dear preciouse bro, amen, you are so right. For what its worth I made phone contact recently with bro Tom Ray. We did not discuse any real church maters but I just called to recomend a bro that we had at LWF. He was from near Russia, Bro Propeof or something like that, he just preached for us & I could hardly put my hands down the whole service. I did speake to Bro Tom a little about the subjects that the visiting minister had covered, but CBW already had a visiting minister schedueled.

    I also just made contact with bro Ed as well, I needed to inform him that an old minister freind had just died in Oklahoma. We did not discuse any pertenent maters & I supose that we might not see eye to eye on everything but I am still indebted to him & am thankfull for the many years that we had together as a team.

    On other fronts with our personal family isues the relations are begining to thaw out as well.

    So please keep praying for us & our situations. I would like to say that there has been many good & positive things that have happened because of the split to.

    God richly bless you my brother Gary W

  108. I am your precious brother says:

    that is VERY GOOD NEWS. i think i can now say like the attorney who Br. Branham went to apologies to

    “I got more confidence in you than i had before.”

    This shows and confirms what is in you. That is the way to defeat the evil one. I will pray for you and all the brethren in Canada that the fellowship that was there before may reign.
    I am looking forward to meeting you and your family in That Meeting up in the sky and shake your hands.

    God richly bless you.

    yours fellow pilgrim,

    your precious brother.

  109. I am your precious brother says:

    God bless you once more. I just felt led to share with you the words of this song.

    WE’VE GOT THE POWER

    I

    GIVE ME YOUR HAND
    LET’S AGREE TOGETHER
    THAT ALL OF OUR ENEMIES
    WILL CRUMBLE AT OUR FEET
    FOR WHATEVER WE BIND ON EARTH
    SHALL BE BOUND IN HEAVEN
    AT THE NAME OF JESUS
    SATAN HAS TO FLEE!!!

    II

    FOR MANY YEARS NOW
    SATAN’S HAS TRIED TO STOP US (through splits and various creeds)
    BUT THE BRIDE OF JESUS
    LO! IS STILL ALIVE (glory!)
    LIKE A MIGHTY ARMY
    WE KEEP MARCHING ONWARD (amen!!! one day we shall get to the speaking condition. Him working in us for She’ll be Him)
    WINNING EVERY BATTLE
    FOR THE LORD BY OUR SIDE. (hallelujah)

    CHORUS

    WE’VE GOT THE POWER
    IN THE NAME OF JESUS
    WE’VE GOT THE POWER
    IN HE NAME OF THE LORD
    THO’ SATAN RAGES
    WE CANNOT BE DEFEATED
    WE’VE GOT THE POWER
    IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.

    by Your Precious Brother

  110. gary White says:

    Dear Cal

    I dont belive that shalom is looking stupid, there are alot of things that I could say but I am trying to be positive on the church split issue. Dear sis please bear with me while I remind you & me that we must be carefull about what we say about our bros & sis, especialy ministers. Bro Jerimiah said that we are Christ body on earth so lets be carefull what we say about each other.

    God Bless GW

  111. Madibawitbank says:

    Shalom,

    Whew! I did not expect to see anybody here still but there is one this that everybody needs to know: WE LOVE YOU ALL. Times surely heals all the wounds!

    I reiterate we just love everybody….and it does not matter on which side of the fence you are we are all the children of the Most High God. I hope to meet my dear friend DustInTheWind. I just love the way he tells it like it is.

    Regards,

    Madiba

  112. DustInTheWind says:

    Thanks Madiba,
    Weird thing is….I rarely bother to look on here anymore but today at work for some reason I was thinking of that old song called Dust In The Wind and the words to it and how we are truly just that….Dust In The Wind. Then I thought of this blog and decided to check it out and bang…there was a comment from you to me! The odds are probably one in a million for that to happen.
    Anyways….yes I say it how it is because I’ve seen so much in all the years that I have been around the “Message”. I’ve become extremely street smart when it comes to so called Believers. Seems to me that Bro Branham said to go to church and if you can’t find a Message church go to a local church….feed on what’s good and spit out the pits. I never thought that we would get to the point where a person goes to an actual Message church and end up spitting out pits the majority of the time. I remember saying on here that I hope heaven is huge because I’ll be gone fishing on the farthest corner. I’ve seen enough and heard enough and been on the receiving end of self righteous “brothers” enough times to make my GUT want to puke. There ARE the true brothers and sisters…then there are the ones who just enjoy belonging to a club who love being religious, having a position and sticking their nose into people’s lives and make it a living hell for them….as I said once before….the wheel keeps turning…and when it finally makes a complete circle and comes up behind the ones who created problems for others in the past…and it begins to crush them…those same people cry out “Why me Lord?”
    Hope you are doing well Bro Madiba….ya I say it how it is I guess…but I’ve got very good reason to.

    Take care!

    • ShalomShalom says:

      So you call not being gullible anymore “street smart”? Well, some things are just more obvious to some people than to other people.

      At times, I wonder how gullible some ministers can be, and why they can’t tell when someone is trying to use them only for political purposes. Then again perhaps they aren’t gullible and they are letting things go on for a season. You know like Elisha let Gehazi go on being close to him until Gehazi clearly manifested his intentions weren’t pure. Gehazi probably thought he was pulling the wool over Elisha’s eyes by his constant bragging about Elisha being so great. It finally came out later that Gehazi only bragged on Elisha all the time for the benefits (money) that came with being close to him.

      Recently, I witnessed for the second time the same man do this to the same pastor. He showed up out of the blue for no reason, and spends the whole service bragging about the pastor. It’s nice to say good things about a fine man of God. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but what is the motive behind the bragging? Is it only done to get close to him, so one can use the political clout of being close to him? Or is it done in sincerity?

      Do you think Elisha had the wool pulled over his eyes by Gehazi? Maybe, maybe not.

      It’s almost as bad as a brother trying to tell people they have the Holy Ghost just because they believed and were baptized according to Acts 2:38, then turning around and telling someone else they didn’t have the Holy Ghost just because their flesh didn’t look enthused one service.

      As Brother Branham would say that’ as bad as “…a Catholic priest one time went home with a–on Friday, with a new convert to the Catholic church. And the Catholic convert had baked a ham, and he said, “Father, I am sorry, as my remembrance comes to me, this is Friday. But I believe that according to our great doctrine of the church, that one time I was a Jew, and you sprinkled some holy water on me and turned me from a Jew to a Catholic. Now, I shall sprinkle a little of that same water upon this ham and make a fish out of it.” Now, that’s, saying that doesn’t make it a fish. It’s still a ham, no matter how holy the water might pretend to be.” (61-1231m).

  113. DustInTheWind says:

    Oh I’m definitely not gullible to anybody anymore! Yes I call it “street smart” in the Message! It’s all between you and God ONLY! People who cater to any minister or deacon have missed the boat. If they think that uplifting a minister or deacon, and getting a pat on the head or recognition because you did something nice for them is going to get them anywhere, they are sorely wrong. That’s worshipping man! There’s no God in that. A pastor is there for one reason….that’s to SERVE! Not be catered to like we see today! In a lot of cases it seems to have turned into a power and money issue! Run a church and get rich off the people’s sweat! Pretty good deal for a lot of these preachers I would say! Travel here and there, have men’s luncheons, paid credit cards, then of course a holiday “sabbatical” to get away from it all to “recharge” because it’s been “exhausting”….. WOW!! And who gets the money when the church decides maybe one day to shut down or sell the building and property? The people who paid and tithed and offered for many years? Or the preacher and his family? Pretty good deal I would say for a handful of people living off the sweat and blood and blisters of others!!! Almost comparable to the Crystal Cathedral, Harold Camping, Benny Hinn and the Catholic System and many others. But boy, if a person brings that up and asks about it….be sure to know you will be railroaded and booted out for sure! Better off to stick with the Maker and yourself and not cater or coddle any man! I was wondering as well….do preachers tithe? And if so….to who? Themselves? Pretty much a win win for them! Get paid a fortune to preach then tithe to themselves too?

  114. ShalomShalom says:

    Bro,

    I wish it was true that it doesn’t get them anywhere, but sadly it does. However, if you added the words “with God” your statement would be true.

    To answer your question concerning ministers or more specifically pastors paying tithes, theoretically the answer is “yes”. They should. The prophet paid tithes to men who didn’t have the authority to bless him. You know like some might be tempted to think, ‘I pay my tithes to you and in turn you pay yours to me.” It has a lot to do with the motive and objective. If they tithe to one pastor or another, that’s up to them, but they shouldn’t be trying to pull the wool over God’s eyes. He knows why they chose the person they did to tithe to. He is just not so easily deceived as some might think. (Galatians 6:7-10)

    Theoretically the tithe does not belong to just one man. God did place the pastor as the steward of the tithe, but he will have to answer to God (not you or me) if he wasn’t a good steward of what God allowed him to be in charge of (Matthew 25.) Now if we know he is a deliberately being a wicked steward with God’s money (i.e. using the church’s money in order to persecute Bride Members he doesn’t agree with to further his own agenda), we are not to demand a refund of what we have given him. We gave that money to God in good faith, so we are not responsible for what happens to it after it leaves the control of our stewardship. But it would be a sin for us to continue funding something we know is evil. As one pastor said, “Why would you trust your soul with someone you can’t even trust with your money?”

    We shouldn’t be tempted to accuse the majority of what the minority is guilty of (or vice versa). Condemning the just is as bad as justifying the wicked (Proverbs 17:15.)

  115. I am your precious brother says:

    shall everyone kindly join me in singing this song whose lyrics are seen below:-

    Blest be the tie that binds,
    Our hearts in Christian love;
    The fellowship of kindred minds
    Is like to that above.

    Before our Father’s throne,
    We pour our ardent prayers;
    Our fears, our hopes, our aims
    are one,
    Our comforts and our cares.

    We share our mutual woes,
    Our mutual burdens bear;
    And often for each other flows
    The sympathizing tear.

    When we asunder part,
    It gives us inward pain;
    But we shall still be joined in
    heart,
    And hope to meet again.

  116. DustInTheWind says:

    That precious brother guy is a bit of a whackjob I think. Just waaaaaay out in left field…tell ya what “precious brother” let’s all stand shall we? Put our hand over our hearts, bow your head….and join me in singing “Oh Tannenbaum” followed by the wonderful song that’s always moved me to tears…. “Mein Hut, der hat drei Ecken”. Join us all for snacks and drinks in the fellowship room. Immediately following these 2 songs, the speaker will be either Mr. Magoo, Mighty Mouse or Jughead.

  117. I am your precious brother says:

    And as the days grow closer and closer, and the narrowing of the path, we–we want to go closer together. My, we must be just one, one body. We must move together, forgetting one another’s sins and our differences, just sticking closer and closer and closer, as we see that Day approaching. Assembling ourselves together, all with one accord and one heart. And if a brother, sister gets out of the way, in any way, don’t do nothing but pray for that person, and in love, always considering one another. Don’t–don’t never let one of you get away. Stay together. And, if you can, add more to it, constantly, all the time.[.THINKING.MAN'S.FILTER_ JEFF.IN V-5 N-6 SUNDAY_ 65-0822E]

  118. Gary White says:

    Amen bro, However I am certain satan tries to hide behind quotes like this. satan & the bros & sis he uses to comit sexual criminal acts through are very confident because they know that nobody wants to soil there hands with exposing these sins.

    ONE WAY TO STOP SEXUAL ABUSE TOMOROW IS TO STAND UP TO IT TODAY & TO REFUSE TO LET GUILTY PARTIES & THERE COLABORATERS GO BY UNCHECKED.

    No mater who they are or how angry they get with there tactics of fear & intimidation. There were a number of abuse cases that were in our midst. In most of these cases the guilty become the poor inocent victims, & thouse that blow the wistel along with the real victoms become the evil ones. Taking the way with the Lords dispised few is more than just a song here in the Pacific North West.

    God Bless GW

  119. I am your precious brother says:

    i think this blog harbours individuals who possess some bitterness in them. no wonder one can never sing ‘Blest be the tie that binds our hearts in christian love’ but dislike it.

    *********************************************************************************************************************
    To my precious brother Gary

    when you say you have received the message, you receive the whole of it and not the part that suits you and you throw away the rest. I am sure the message has given us ways in which to tackle sex abuse cases. i am sure the message does not say “ONE WAY TO STOP SEXUAL ABUSE TOMOROW IS TO STAND UP TO IT TODAY & TO REFUSE TO LET GUILTY PARTIES & THERE COLABORATERS GO BY UNCHECKED.” If you insist you are a message believer, i challenge you to say an amen to ….
    —————————————————————————————————
    And as the days grow closer and closer, and the narrowing of the path, we–we want to go closer together. My, we must be just one, one body. We must move together, forgetting one another’s sins and our differences, just sticking closer and closer and closer, as we see that Day approaching. Assembling ourselves together, all with one accord and one heart. And if a brother, sister gets out of the way, in any way, don’t do nothing but pray for that person, and in love, always considering one another. Don’t–don’t never let one of you get away. Stay together. And, if you can, add more to it, constantly, all the time.[.THINKING.MAN'S.FILTER_ JEFF.IN V-5 N-6 SUNDAY_ 65-0822E]
    ————————————————————————————–
    if you can’t say an AMEN to it and do as it says then bro am sorry to say that i don’t think you believe the message. by the way this statement “ONE WAY TO STOP SEXUAL ABUSE TOMOROW IS TO STAND UP TO IT TODAY & TO REFUSE TO LET GUILTY PARTIES & THERE COLABORATERS GO BY UNCHECKED.” reminds me of the woman brought to Jesus after being caught in adultery. Jesus said told them that he who has not sinned let him be the first to cast a stone. So bro Gary, if you have never sinned, please be the first to cast a stone. May be you haven’t done much worse things but in-front of God’s eyes, adultery and killing are the same thing. But be it known to you that you are being tested. what is in you will come out anyway and we shall see it or it has already been seen. you won’t hide any longer. have you ever asked yourself why it had to be you.

    Jesus never associated himself with the pharisees but sinners and unwanted people (according to the pharisees eyes) in the society. The pharisees were religious and this has repeated itself in the message. I know this for i have seen it myself. So if i can’t be willing to stretch my hand and lift the one who did the abusing, i have a problem and i need God to deliver me and change me till i can have room for the vilest sinner.

    I have also thought that if your current pastor (God forbid) finds himself in a similar situation as your previous pastor, as history repeats itself, you will leave the church too and form another one.

    i don’t condone sexual abuse and will never condone it, but if it happens, i can not say that ” i am holy and will never associate myself with abusers and their collaborators” remembering that these are my brethren and i expect to meet them after rapture in the wedding supper. I also don’t condone splits but I cannot say that i cannot fellowship with bro. Gary and those who broke away from cloverdale because they never went with their pastor through the thick and thin.

    i am sorry for ruffling some feathers. Let us all remember, if we don’t agree with the Message, The Message will keep marching on.

    bro Gary, i am sorry for bashing you in public, please forgive me. i did it because i thought i may have something to say that will benefit all. i view this whole blog as a debate where people are airing out their opinions and not a place whereby people are arguing. Bro, i know you are fighting on God’s side and you are my brother. To be sincere with you, i loved your testimony you gave during the watchnight some years back. it really inspired me to do something for God. i have never forgotten it. Don’t forget that that Pastor went ahead of us and is waiting for us. If the Lord tarries, you and i will go that road someday and we don’t want problems when we get there. So bro i love and please forgive my stupidity and my faults. i know i am not good or worthy to be writing such things to such a Godly servant as you. i feel that i am not even fit to untie your shoe laces for the things i have done, may be, are much more worse. i have in, my opinion, severe scars that i hate to think about and my ONLY hope is His grace. without His grace, i am DOOMED–my soul is gone and doomed. If there is someone that rightfully ought to be crucified and stoned, then it is me but i believe by His grace i will make it. i keep falling in some battles but i never allow the devil to count up to ten before i wake up again to fight. i am wounded and weary but until my life on earth is done, by His grace, i will keep pressing on. all i can say is that i hope by God’s grace, you will give another great testimony that will inspire me more.
    Bro, wish you all the best in this life. GOD BLESS YOU RICHLY.

    ***********************************************************************************************************************

    as for the rest of us, we have a laid down example to follow that can be read below

    —————————————start of quote————————————————————

    QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS_ JEFF.IN COD SUNDAY_ 64-0823E

    1022-124 Now, also here I might bring this out. I see my… I don’t think my Brother’s here tonight, but somebody made fun of somebody leaving the Tabernacle and went down to Brother Junior Jackson’s for a church. Said, “They went down amongst the ‘dead birds.’” Aren’t you ashamed to make a remark like that? Ever who you are, if you’re my kid here in Christ, I’m ashamed of you. Don’t do a thing like that. Junior Jackson is my brother. Don Ruddell is my brother.
    Now, Brother Junior Jackson had a right to disagree with that. He wants his church… The people all want to speak with tongues and things in the audience. That’s Brother Junior’s troubles; that’s–that’s up to him. But Junior Jackson believes this Message the same as the–any of the rest of us does. He’s one of us. And it’s not a “dead bird” to go there. Junior Jackson is a man of God that I love with all my heart. And is not here tonight, so I can really pour it on the way I want to.

    QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS_ JEFF.IN COD SUNDAY_ 64-0823E

    1024-135 And–and Don Ruddell… I don’t think Don’s here tonight, ’cause they got church of their own. But if I seen every person come to this tabernacle, walk out and go to Don Ruddell, or–or Brother J. T. Parnell, or Brother–any of these brothers here that’s our brothers here and fellow citizens of the Kingdom, I’d be so happy I wouldn’t know what to do. I’d say, “Lord, fill this one back up again. Let’s pour it out and fill up another one.” I’d love it. I’d love to see those boys… They’re my–they’re my children.
    Now, J. T. or–or any of the rest of them don’t have to believe just like I do; they don’t have to do that. As I told you this morning, I don’t even agree with my wife, or she don’t agree with me. What if I went to table and Junior got apple pie and I got cherry pie. Brother, we’re both eating pie; we can agree that, but… And we both preach the same Gospel. His church discipline…

    QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS_ JEFF.IN COD SUNDAY_ 64-0823E

    1025-137 You know, Peter and Paul had differences, not in their doctrine, but the way Peter was behaving hisself. They had a–a little difference in it, but it never separated them. They were brothers. Why, sure we’re going to have differences, not differences… I disagree with the Assemblies of God. I disagree with their systems, but there’s a many Assembly of God man that’s a precious brother. I disagree with the oneness doctrine, but there’s a many of those men are precious men.

    I agree–disagree with the Baptists, with the Presbyterians and their systems, but in there, there’s genuine Christians.

    ———————————-end of quote————————————————————-

    anyway brothers and sisters, GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!! :)

  120. I am your precious brother says:

    i think this blog harbors individuals who possess some bitterness in them. no wonder one can never sing ‘Blest be the tie that binds our hearts in christian love’ but dislike it.

    *********************************************************************************************************************
    To my precious brother Gary

    when you say you have received the message, you receive the whole of it and not the part that suits you and you throw away the rest. I am sure the message has given us ways in which to tackle sex abuse cases. i am sure the message does not say “ONE WAY TO STOP SEXUAL ABUSE TOMOROW IS TO STAND UP TO IT TODAY & TO REFUSE TO LET GUILTY PARTIES & THERE COLABORATERS GO BY UNCHECKED.” If you insist you are a message believer, i challenge you to say an amen to ….
    —————————————————————————————————
    And as the days grow closer and closer, and the narrowing of the path, we–we want to go closer together. My, we must be just one, one body. We must move together, forgetting one another’s sins and our differences, just sticking closer and closer and closer, as we see that Day approaching. Assembling ourselves together, all with one accord and one heart. And if a brother, sister gets out of the way, in any way, don’t do nothing but pray for that person, and in love, always considering one another. Don’t–don’t never let one of you get away. Stay together. And, if you can, add more to it, constantly, all the time.[.THINKING.MAN'S.FILTER_ JEFF.IN V-5 N-6 SUNDAY_ 65-0822E]
    ————————————————————————————–
    if you can’t say an AMEN to it and do as it says then bro am sorry to say that i don’t think you believe the message. by the way this statement “ONE WAY TO STOP SEXUAL ABUSE TOMOROW IS TO STAND UP TO IT TODAY & TO REFUSE TO LET GUILTY PARTIES & THERE COLABORATERS GO BY UNCHECKED.” reminds me of the woman brought to Jesus after being caught in adultery. Jesus said told them that he who has not sinned let him be the first to cast a stone. So bro Gary, if you have never sinned, please be the first to cast a stone. May be you haven’t done much worse things but in-front of God’s eyes, adultery and killing are the same thing. But be it known to you that you are being tested. what is in you will come out anyway and we shall see it or it has already been seen. you won’t hide any longer. have you ever asked yourself why it had to be you.

    Jesus never associated himself with the pharisees but sinners and unwanted people (according to the pharisees eyes) in the society. The pharisees were religious and this has repeated itself in the message. I know this for i have seen it myself. So if i can’t be willing to stretch my hand and lift the one who did the abusing, i have a problem and i need God to deliver me and change me till i can have room for the vilest sinner.

    I have also thought that if your current pastor (God forbid) finds himself in a similar situation as your previous pastor, as history repeats itself, you will leave the church too and form another one.

    i don’t condone sexual abuse and will never condone it, but if it happens, i can not say that ” i am holy and will never associate myself with abusers and their collaborators” remembering that these are my brethren and i expect to meet them after rapture in the wedding supper. I also don’t condone splits but I cannot say that i cannot fellowship with bro. Gary and those who broke away from cloverdale because they never went with their pastor through the thick and thin.

    i am sorry for ruffling some feathers. Let us all remember, if we don’t agree with the Message, The Message will keep marching on.

    bro Gary, i am sorry for bashing you in public, please forgive me. i did it because i thought i may have something to say that will benefit all. i view this whole blog as a debate where people are airing out their opinions and not a place whereby people are arguing. Bro, i know you are fighting on God’s side and you are my brother. To be sincere with you, i loved your testimony you gave during the watchnight some years back. it really inspired me to do something for God. i have never forgotten it. Don’t forget that that Pastor went ahead of us and is waiting for us. If the Lord tarries, you and i will go that road someday and we don’t want problems when we get there. So bro i love you and please forgive my stupidity and my faults. i know i am not good or worthy to be writing such things to such a Godly servant as you. i feel that i am not even fit to untie your shoe laces for the things i have done, may be, are much more worse. i have in, my opinion, severe scars that i hate to think about and my ONLY hope is His grace. without His grace, i am DOOMED–my soul is gone and doomed. If there is someone that rightfully ought to be crucified and stoned, then it is me but i believe by His grace i will make it. i keep falling in some battles but i never allow the devil to count up to ten before i wake up again to fight. i am wounded and weary but until my life on earth is done, by His grace, i will keep pressing on. all i can say is that i hope by God’s grace, you will give another great testimony that will inspire me more.
    Bro, wish you all the best in this life. GOD BLESS YOU RICHLY.

    ***********************************************************************************************************************

    as for the rest of us, we have a laid down example to follow that can be read below

    —————————————start of quote————————————————————

    QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS_ JEFF.IN COD SUNDAY_ 64-0823E

    1022-124 Now, also here I might bring this out. I see my… I don’t think my Brother’s here tonight, but somebody made fun of somebody leaving the Tabernacle and went down to Brother Junior Jackson’s for a church. Said, “They went down amongst the ‘dead birds.’” Aren’t you ashamed to make a remark like that? Ever who you are, if you’re my kid here in Christ, I’m ashamed of you. Don’t do a thing like that. Junior Jackson is my brother. Don Ruddell is my brother.
    Now, Brother Junior Jackson had a right to disagree with that. He wants his church… The people all want to speak with tongues and things in the audience. That’s Brother Junior’s troubles; that’s–that’s up to him. But Junior Jackson believes this Message the same as the–any of the rest of us does. He’s one of us. And it’s not a “dead bird” to go there. Junior Jackson is a man of God that I love with all my heart. And is not here tonight, so I can really pour it on the way I want to.

    QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS_ JEFF.IN COD SUNDAY_ 64-0823E

    1024-135 And–and Don Ruddell… I don’t think Don’s here tonight, ’cause they got church of their own. But if I seen every person come to this tabernacle, walk out and go to Don Ruddell, or–or Brother J. T. Parnell, or Brother–any of these brothers here that’s our brothers here and fellow citizens of the Kingdom, I’d be so happy I wouldn’t know what to do. I’d say, “Lord, fill this one back up again. Let’s pour it out and fill up another one.” I’d love it. I’d love to see those boys… They’re my–they’re my children.
    Now, J. T. or–or any of the rest of them don’t have to believe just like I do; they don’t have to do that. As I told you this morning, I don’t even agree with my wife, or she don’t agree with me. What if I went to table and Junior got apple pie and I got cherry pie. Brother, we’re both eating pie; we can agree that, but… And we both preach the same Gospel. His church discipline…

    QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS_ JEFF.IN COD SUNDAY_ 64-0823E

    1025-137 You know, Peter and Paul had differences, not in their doctrine, but the way Peter was behaving hisself. They had a–a little difference in it, but it never separated them. They were brothers. Why, sure we’re going to have differences, not differences… I disagree with the Assemblies of God. I disagree with their systems, but there’s a many Assembly of God man that’s a precious brother. I disagree with the oneness doctrine, but there’s a many of those men are precious men.

    I agree–disagree with the Baptists, with the Presbyterians and their systems, but in there, there’s genuine Christians.

    ———————————-end of quote————————————————————-

    anyway brothers and sisters, GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!! :)

    Your fellow soldier in battle,

    your precious brother.

  121. ShalomShalom says:

    To the well intentioned coming in at the last and trying to help a situation without taking the time to start from the beginning of this blog to find out what actually happened:

    It does no good to post a few isolated quotes in order to try to condemn or throw off on others especially when you have no idea what transpired. You must take all the Word, not just a few isolated quotes. That is nothing but an argumentative spirit in sheep’s clothing. If you are not willing to step back and see what actually occurred, then your sincerity is seriously doubted no matter how pious one might try to present himself.

    In the CAB we know that posting isolated quotes and Scriptures is not the way to convince others of your point, for a student of the Word just as well studied as yourself can present just as many quotes and Scriptures which display the opposing view. Perhaps he’ll even be more convincing. This was even the case when there was no doubt that those on both sides of an issue knew the exact meaning of the Greek. “But has he convinced other students of the Greek who are as able as he? Never. All you have to do is read those students who hold the opposite view and hear their learned quotes.” p31

    There is a reason why Jesus hung around sinners and not the church goes who seemed pious on the outside. The sick sinners knew they needed the help of the Physician to be healed. Those in control of the synagogues didn’t think they had a need for the Physician and rejected Him. Then because they thought they had no need of the Physician, they intentionally tried to murder the influence of anyone that didn’t want to join up with them. The sad thing is they did this while they committed worse offenses in the eyes of God. Even Jesus told them flatly that they act piously by relishing the quotes of the prophet (for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life), but the same spirit that fathered them is the same one that killed the effects of prophet they relish (Luke 11:47-48.)

    I could go into detail with Quotes and Scriptures and give a precise account of what transpired on this blog (and what caused the other blog) which prompted the brother to step in with great restraint requesting the originators of this blog to quit attacking an innocent man in ignorance. However, for those who are sincere, they can easily reference back and see what transpired on this blog.

    It’s like a parable, I’ll leave you with.

    Once there was someone who intentionally shoved another off a cleft, and then started pelting him with rocks to finish him off and make certain he was dead. Then a faithful brother saw what just transpired, and withstood the one trying to murder his brother. After the faithful brother demanded the intentional shover to quit throwing rocks and leave the Cliff area, a well intentioned but mislead one saw the faithful brother, and accused him of being unchristian-like to the intentional shover, and insinuated he was not a true believer because he wasn’t turning the other cheek. You see the well intentioned one’s opinion was sorely skewed because of the timing in which he arrived on the scene, and not being willing to step back to see what actually was occurring before his eyes.

    That’s sort of like this one brother I know who confronted a man who sexually propositioned his son that was a minor. The rumor got out that the man who confronted the pervert was holding a grudge against him because of something that happened in the past. It was just failed to also be conveyed that ‘the past’ was actually just a few days ago, and the man was just trying to protect his under aged son from being molested.

  122. Gary White says:

    My precious Bro

    I agree with everything you said & quoted, I also agree with every word that I have said.

    No disrespect but may I challenge you right back? Our prophet said one way to stop adultery is to bring the guilty parties in to the public & have them castrated. Can we all say amen.

    I unfortunately am still in the middle of this area, I have had an opportunity to hear & witness very disturbing behavior from the guilty parties. I find them to be proud,arrogant, cocky, (cheeky for you Canadians) un broken, no remorse on the attack. One former homosexual pedophile has been reported to say that his victim was no victim at all He said the same concerning other victims.

    I just watched one notable pasture from the south who is involved with this case say you victims who have been raped, abused you cant use that for an excuse to not serve the Lord. Now I agree with his statements but I feel he demonstrates a strong lack of compassion & understanding of what victims go through mentally, spiritually, physically etc. I also strongly believe that he should have nothing to say about these cases as he has proved where his loyalties lay.

    I was just listening to my prophet yesterday he quoted the Bible saying WE HAVE RENOUNCED THE HIDDEN THINGS OF DIHONNESTY.

    This thing I & others have done, but please don’t get the idea that it gives me a great feeling or any kind of satisfaction, it breaks my hart to say these things, it troubles me & saddens me.

    God Bless GW

  123. Gary White says:

    you won’t hide any longer. have you ever asked yourself why it had to be you.

    Dear Bro I am pretty sure 4oo others left not just me, or did you mean why it had to be you all?
    If I am trying to hide I would say I have been doing a poor job of it.

    Gary and those who broke away from cloverdale because they never went with their pastor through the thick and thin. We were driven out, (bullied out)
    A minister who left tried to visit CBW a year ago he was told to get out unless he repents. Ask your pastour why he wont visit his bro inlaw in the hospital?

    Maybe you should try quoting your message of love & unity to those who need to hear it the most. Please talk to your people about these concerns & statments & let me know how it goes. Do you feel you have the freedom or liberty to do so? Most likely you will find your self like us looking for another church. I hope not.

    God bless you my bro Gary White

  124. I am your precious brother says:

    To my precious brother Gary,

    it is quite good that i am seen as trying to put a message of love and unity across.

    i also think it was your son who is alleged to have been molested so when i wrote why it had to be you i meant why did such a bad thing have to befallen your fallen.

    as for that minister, he should have repented. how many times do we have to repent of things we haven’t done.

    let us not forget that as long as we are bitter, angered or don’t love your fellow brother, then the devil don’t have to pull any punches. he will sit there and enjoy you self destruct.

    i am sorry for you guys being bullied out of cloverdale. but if we are christians, shouldn’t we forgive the brethren who did that to us? we should not wait for them to come and apologize so that we can forgive them. and after we forgive them we should extend an olive branch to them and tell them that we love them and we are praying for them regardless of what they have done unto us. i believe that is how a christian should act. so as a Christian, you play your part and leave the rest to God. and this is why i am not focusing on the other side. i want the breakaway group to reach out to the other group and not wait for the other group to reach out to them.

    ———————————————————————————————————————
    No disrespect but may I challenge you right back? Our prophet said one way to stop adultery is to bring the guilty parties in to the public & have them castrated. Can we all say amen.
    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    if the prophet said it then AMEN! but will go and castrate them as a Christian?

    —————————————————————————————————————-
    I unfortunately am still in the middle of this area, I have had an opportunity to hear & witness very disturbing behavior from the guilty parties. I find them to be proud,arrogant, cocky, (cheeky for you Canadians) un broken, no remorse on the attack. One former homosexual pedophile has been reported to say that his victim was no victim at all He said the same concerning other victims.
    —————————————————————————————————————-

    Bro, just forgive them. it is hard to do so but just pray God to give you the strength to do it. and pray for them that God will change them and make them humble and loving.

    ——————————————————————————————————————-
    I just watched one notable pasture from the south who is involved with this case say you victims who have been raped, abused you cant use that for an excuse to not serve the Lord. Now I agree with his statements but I feel he demonstrates a strong lack of compassion & understanding of what victims go through mentally, spiritually, physically etc. I also strongly believe that he should have nothing to say about these cases as he has proved where his loyalties lay.
    ————————————————————————————————————–

    maybe his approach was poor but he is a servant of God. forgive him too.

    ——————————————————————————————————————–
    I was just listening to my prophet yesterday he quoted the Bible saying WE HAVE RENOUNCED THE HIDDEN THINGS OF DIHONNESTY.

    This thing I & others have done, but please don’t get the idea that it gives me a great feeling or any kind of satisfaction, it breaks my hart to say these things, it troubles me & saddens me.
    —————————————————————————————————————–

    ooooh my Precious Brother Gary, that is very, very good of you to be listening to tapes. as it troubles and saddens you, so does it to me. i can assure you one thing if truly you are a child of God, you will never have peace here on this earth till there is fellowship between you (i am not talking of the other 400 but i am talking of you) and those at cloverdale.

    Bro Gary, the ball is in your court as much as (in my opinion) you seem to try real hard to ignore this fact. Love conquers everything. am sure i don’t have to illustrate this for you have seen a lot in life already.

    God bless you Bro. Gary :)
    *********************************************************************************************************************

    To ShalomShalom:

    i am sorry for posting isolated quotes. just forgive me. i am not also well versed with the scriptures as you are but at least i know that God loves me and cares for me beyond any shadow of doubt and i know that He is interested in my affairs and by His Grace i am still pressing on no matter how wounded i am. I know my Redeemer liveth. i hope you too know that God loves you and cares for you. But my main aim was to show you that no matter what church we are in, we are still brethren for we are fighting on the same side ,on The Lord’s side. i am full of flaws and if you decided to investigate me you will be shocked but i pray thee that you will focus on my main aim and if possible help me portray the same. just pray for me that God will straighten out my imperfections. God bless you :)

    yours fellow pilgrim,

    your precious brother.

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Bro,

      Perhaps things would go a lot better if people actually observed what was happening before they engaged in a situation with the wrong premise. For if a person in the crowd witnessed what happened that day in the temple when Jesus turned over the money changers table, they would think the very Saviour was evil and acting without love contrary to the very Word He was fulfilling.

      If you read this from the beginning you would have a different conclusion.

      I could care less about your past trangressions, just make sure they are under the blood and don’t persecute your brother.

      • Cal says:

        Shalomshalom , I still cannot believe you’re a minister …..

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Unbelief does not hinder God. That only hinders the unbeliever.

        I have written many unbelievers on forums. Now that is a sad bunch.

  125. Gary White says:

    My dear Brother

    To the best of my knowledge I love every one. I get a little disturbed when I see things going on such as I have already described. I would apreciate it if you would ask me questions before jumping to any conclusions.

    I was recently with a believer from CBW. I told them that we refuse to be intimated into silence by heavy handed tactics from CBW. They told me I must have the wrong perception. I said one brother (office holder) called my wife & all but cursed her out & then slammed the phone down on her. Another backslid en young bro text my son & told him that his mother should be shot. Another bro who we used to be very close to verbally assaulted me in public. Finally the pastor via public Internet mentioned our people by name & declared that we are not a church & that we are a bunch of Moabits . There is more but that should be enough.

    This person told me that they have heard the Oct 3rd message several times but never heard the pastour mention any names. SCAREY, very SCAREY.

    There are at least 3 & probably more cases of child molesters in our midst. But my son was not a victim.

    Now the ball is in our court??? As all ready stated a minister tried to visit CBW & he was told to leave.

    My own Girl tried to visit CBW & was latter Rebuked over the pulpit for it. Some of our sis tried to have a fellowship together with some sis from CBW & the CBW pastor thoroughly condemned it from his pulpit.
    A bro from CBW was at deaths door recently when he came back I approached him with an out stretched hand & welcomed him back, he stared at me & sneered & turned away. This was done in front of several unbelievers who were more than shocked at his behavior.

    Now you have wrote about love & unity while we have acted it out.

    I truly thank you for your concern & I covet your prayers.

  126. DustInTheWind says:

    What I dont understand is WHY the names of these perverts are not made public knowledge??? Call an ace an ace and a spade a spade!!! If there are perverts luring kids in with gay offers, or kids being lured by older women or vice versa, why is it swept under the carpet?? Say it how it IS!!! If someone touched my kids, there would be a death sentence on that person. Not forgiveness! I guess the family of that person who was the pervert would have to forgive me for my actions of getting rid of the “problem”!!! I can’t believe this exists in the Message!!! Say the name of the pervert and MARK them so no one else falls into that trap! What’s with the cover ups??? Sex, drugs and rock n roll are so Mickey mouse compared to perverted, gay, molesting children etc…. Stand up for your families! Or did u get bought out?? Even organized crime and lifers in prison would go out of their way to shut a pervert, child molester, rapist down! Everyone has gotten way to soft!!! Absolutely sick!!!!!!!!!!!!! And these people are “sheltered”??!!! I want to throw up!!!! No offense but YOU say you’re the “chosen ones” yet you cross the street if you see each other because you left the “church”!!?? Good luck getting there!!! All I know, touch my kids in any perverted way…….you’re done!!! Oops! I slipped!!! Poor lovely perverted brother is in a trunk at the bottom of a river!! Forgive me!!!!!!!! You HAVE to!!!!!!!!

  127. I am your precious brother says:

    @ ShalomShalom,
    you got a good name there…PEACEPEACE… ensure you reflect that in this blog. before i started posting my comments, i did read in full most of the comments and some hurt me as a christian that is why i resolved to tell all that no matter what has happened, we are still brethren. don’t worry of my sins and mistakes for they are under the blood. makes sure yours are also there too. hope to meet you in that glad morning and shake your hand. i may not know you now but i will in that morning.

    @Bro. Gary,
    Bro. Gary, i am sorry for my wrong assumptions and i will pray for you. you also pray for me. it is a pity all this is happening but for that bro who sneered and turned away from you, pray for him that God will take away that devil. even the believers present were shocked and that showed you that it is not all of them that don’t love you. God is seeing all these things and everything works out for good to them that love The Lord and i know Bro. Gary loves The Lord. there is a reason for the happening of all these events which we may not understand now but we will by and by. I hope i have encouraged you to continue keep pressing on. hope to meet you in that glad morning and shake your hand. continue to attending the services at whichever church you go to, listening to the tapes and praying in your closet, God will somehow make a way for you and your family.

    i have also retired from this blog with the following words below.
    ———————————————————————————————————————–
    MATTHEW 5:38
    38 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

    MATTHEW 5:39
    39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

    MATTHEW 5:40
    40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have [thy] cloke also.

    MATTHEW 5:41
    41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

    MATTHEW 5:42
    42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

    MATTHEW 5:43
    43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

    MATTHEW 5:44
    44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

    MATTHEW 5:45
    45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

    MATTHEW 5:46
    46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

    MATTHEW 5:47
    47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?

    MATTHEW 5:48
    48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    ———————————————————————————————————————

    LUKE 6:26
    26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

    LUKE 6:27
    27 ¶ But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

    LUKE 6:28
    28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

    LUKE 6:29
    29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the [one] cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not [to take thy] coat also.

    LUKE 6:30
    30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask [them] not again.

    LUKE 6:31
    31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

    LUKE 6:32
    32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

    LUKE 6:33
    33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

    LUKE 6:34
    34 And if ye lend [to them] of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

    LUKE 6:35
    35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.

    LUKE 6:36
    36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

    LUKE 6:37
    37 ¶ Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

    LUKE 6:38
    38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

    LUKE 6:39
    39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

    LUKE 6:40
    40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

    LUKE 6:41
    41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

    LUKE 6:42
    42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother’s eye.

    LUKE 6:43
    43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

    LUKE 6:44
    44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

    LUKE 6:45
    45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

    LUKE 6:46
    46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

    LUKE 6:47
    47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

    LUKE 6:48
    48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

    LUKE 6:49
    49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
    ———————————————————————————————————————–

    GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!! :)

    yours sincerely looking forward to the body change

    your precious brother.

    • ShalomShalom says:

      “before i started posting my comments, i did read in full most of the comments and some hurt me as a christian that is why i resolved to tell all that no matter what has happened, we are still brethren.”

      Well brother “most” is not “all”. If you would have started from the beginning like I asked, then you would not be insulting your brethren. You are pinning all the blame on the victims and excusing the aggressors when they are still in the act of attacking their victims. How is this logical?

      When some attempt to get into heaven at the judgment, do you think they’ll get in by claiming they believed “most” of the Word, or does it take an amen to “all” the Word? I believe you know the answer, for disobedience to One Word of God is what caused the fall in the garden.

      Perhaps a little more patience should be used before jumping in the middle of something and stirring up a hornets nest just for an effect.

  128. Gary White says:

    My Precoius Bro

    Thank you for your kindness to all concerned. Please bare with our Bro Shalom,
    Bro Branham says God helps them who cant help themselves, & so God has given me this Bro in a time of need. He has also been a help to others as well.

    I am glad to say that the bro who sugested my wife be shot has apologised & is now serving the Lord.

    We have been taught & rightfully so that we are Mrs Jesus, queen of heaven, spotless bride etc, but we must be carefull to not get filled with so much religios pride that when we hear that our son or daughter are child molesters that we cant handle it & begen to respond with truely bizare behavior.

    Like Bro Beckit said in Africa; sometime its not the problam thats the problem but how the problem is handled.

    I thank you for your council & will remind myself of it daily.

    God Be with you Bro Gary White

  129. Gary White says:

    Sis CAL

    You have harshly chriticesed Bro Shalom for involving himself with the church split that is not his church. WHY have you not done the same with bro Madiba & others who have chriticised the saints at LWF baised on what they have heard the leadership preach at CBW. Is it not true that the saints in S Africa also did not go to church at CBW?

  130. DustInTheWind says:

    Is there a reason why my posts are not being posted??

  131. DustInTheWind says:

    Funny how we are supposed to turn a blind eye to perverts and child molesters etc….yet a young sister at CBW was recently found out to have been wearing jeans in a picture of herself on Facebook…..and chased right out of church and not welcome back until she repented! How bout draw a bigger circle around her and not judge? Amazing these double standards!! It will be interesting on THAT day….who is there and who isn’t!!

  132. Gary White says:

    Dear Just Me

    Thanks for your input, it maybe that concerns from the young folks is what it will take to help us old folks get things straightened out. With the help of the Lord I am sure we will in time.

    God Bless GW

  133. Daniel Kihangu says:

    Dear beloved brothers and sisters, it’s by chance I saw this blog and had a chance to go through it. My name is Daniel Kihangu, I am your brother in Christian and fellow companion in this christian life. I sincerely appreciate all the responses, fillings and arguments brought by both parties. Plus I had a chance to listen to the best I can both parties with their best arguments face to face: Our precious brother Tom with his group ( who gave for more than 4 hours, in Bellevue WA, the best explanation of what took place and the reason of his decision), past. Ed Byskal who also gave details of his position.

    I’d like to say with love and sincerity, let us forget what had happened, and all praise to the mark of our call. The split already happened and probably will never get fixed. Everyone have scares and fillings, and seek for God’s justice according to his own understanding. Brothers, we will never progress in our christian life with this kind of fillings. Let us remember that we are brothers and sisters, and never live a place to the devil to divide us more and more. Brother Branham said that if your brother is wrong, love him anyhow. God only know why He allow the split to happen. But don’t let the devil pushes you in such a point you will express your fillings and accusations as you all did recently. There are many things to do for the kingdom of God, prayers to offer for the souls that are dying every day. Our prophet show us that the Devil will make us fight each other in such a point he will have nothing to do and the work of God will be stopped suddenly.
    I ask you all to meditate the book of Nehemiah the prophet, Ezra and Haggai. We have a lot to do for God.

    Let everyone in his own position and church or pastor serve God to the best of his ability. Churches will never go to haven or not your position to a certain man or group of people will help you when you’ll face God in your life. In the message “Church and His condition” brother Branham says that it’s your position toward the Word of God that will help you in the end. The word of God teaches us forgiveness and love. That’s what will stand in the end. The promise of body change is based on Faith and faith acts only by love and is based on forgiveness.

    Please forgive your brother or sister and accept their forgiveness, sister Linda is your sister and brother Byskal is also your brother. They stood up in front of people to ask for forgiveness. May we forget now what happened and love and pray one another. I doubt if really you brothers pray sincerely for your brothers. Remember the thief at the cross did not specified what kind of sins he committed and give any details of what he did wrong. He only said, “Remember me…” that was accepted for his entire sins. Brother Branham said that repentance is the gate of heaven and it’s means regretting what was done and turning back. Remember Ed Byskal was once your pastor and help you in your first walk.Let us remember the good time spent under his ministry or at least a good sermon that we listen from him, and that helps us even today. Pray for him.

    The better way to love someone, in “When love is projected” is to stand on his side and put yourself in his position. The better way to pray sincerely for someone is to think of the good things he did one time in your life. Those are some advises from the message, sorry I don’t have precise quotes for it. Brother Lance and all other brothers who left CBW, are also beloved in Christ, servants of God. There are not less servants when decided to leave their church or their pastor; no matter the reasons. They need prayers from the saints and wisdom of God in their ministries and services to God. Let us remember their sacrifices for the gospel of Christ, and pray sincerely for them.

    May God bless you all and prosper you in all you are doing for the Kingdom of God.

    Your brother in Christ.

    Daniel Kihangu

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Bless your heart.

      • Cal says:

        Shalom
        Aren’t you ashamed ofyourself that as a minister you should be here posting loving and forgiving posts like bro daniel’s ??? But you do the contrary, it hurts that we have these kind of men of God today , may The Lord help us all . Sorry if I offend anybody but the truth is the truth …

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Sis Cal,

        As I have said before, “some people like to remember things like they WISH they were, and others remember them as they actually were.”

        I am sure you are also acquainted with the saying, “Some are sorry and repent for the wrongs they’ve done, while others are just sorry and repent for getting caught.”

        You know it’s a funny thing how an organization can murder over 68 million people in the dark ages, but today they are considered saints. When anyone points out today that only their tactics have changed but not their motives and underlying agenda, that person is considered politically incorrect, intolerant and evil.

        Some things have different names, but the same spirit.

        Ecclesiastes 1:9
        The thing that hath been, it [is that] which shall be; and that which is done [is] that which shall be done: and [there is] no new [thing] under the sun.

      • Cal says:

        Shalom , I dont see were you are going with your thoughts and quotations here …… Brother Ed wasn’t sorry because he got caught , as you know verry well he said the issued that had happened was handlled the way he thought was wright … And even if he handled it wrong , he had already said sorry , repented his wrong doing before God . And the word of God says once you repent God forgives he himself cannot even find it . So what is your purpose on this blog ??? You keep posting his sins and wrong doings when it’s already been confess and forgiven at list according to the word Of God . To me you are playing a verry bad role that Wich is of our accuser the Devil … Cause he is the only one that come to remind us of our fallings , he is the one that points us back to what we did wrong and tells us that we cannot be forgiven and that our repentance wasn’t sincere enough … Am sorry but that’s all I see in your posts here , I do not see the spirit of Christ whatsoever .. And to think that you are a minister of this Gospel with such an attitude it’s scares me ..

      • Cal says:

        I wonder what you preach to your church… ( don’t forgive one another, don’t love each other , point fingers at others wrong doing , don’t love one another, display hate on the Internet for others wrong doing ) this what you do on this blog … We don’t need anymore quotes from you , you want you to use it in your life . Show us that you can forgive your enemies … And stop displaying their wrongs to the rest of the world … Still questioning your motive behind all if this , cause you are not ever from neither cbw or LWF …. It makes me wonder what you have against brother Ed after all … Cause you have already made your point clear , we got it already , but don’t over do it cause you are just messing it up now ….

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Sis Cal,

        Just because you are displaying a denominational spirit and refuse to look at the Word doesn’t mean that others are automatically wrong.

        Show me one place where I have pointed to the sins of one single person. I am only pointing to the Word and using the concepts and principles of the Word. If the reflection you see in the Word is negative or positive, that is something you should look into yourself and change the aspects of your reflection that isn’t like Christ.

        If you do not like the fact that you appear to be a loyal Catholic covering for a corrupt system that only gives lip service when it comes to repentance, but continues on in the art of slamming thier brethren or even claiming those they disagree with aren’t even brethren so they can be exemtped from the Scripture concerning such things, maybe you should remain silent. Then again continue on speaking and expose that you are well swallowed up in such deceptions.

        How many people must such systems destroy, so they can claim they are doing the most good for the most people. The end does not justify the means. If your means is corrupt, does the end you are trying to achieve matter? The means of how you get there shows what kind of character you have yourself as an individual. So if you belong to a system that is saving lives, but to protect what you think is a great system “you think” you must murder this individual or another one, then you are nothing more than a murderer working for a system you think is saving lives. What’s the important thing? Your soul or your world system?

        Mark 8:36
        For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world [SYSTEM], and lose his own soul?

      • Cal says:

        Shalom , to you might apear as catholic covering up my system(cbw) … And I don’t see things that way . But it’s okay to see things differently as believers , maybe we are wrong and you’re the one who’s spotless . But what does the word of God asks us to do? to pray for one another and not to put it on the Internet … I don’t wanna go on and on , I have made my point , and I can’t see myself seing things the way you do . So it’s better you pray for us , and stop posting comments cause they are not useful . Thank you

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Just a tip sister. Please quit insinuating that you are going to quit posting on this means of communication if you have no intention of doing so. When you do that, it makes you look like an untruthful person. Lately you haven’t been as direct as you were at the first half of the year, but here are just two examples of you saying you were going to leave.

        June 30, 2011 at 9:24 PM
        “…not gonna waste my time with you .”

        April 21, 2011 at 6:24 PM
        “.am still wanting , you all to just give a break to this blog , INCLUDING MYSELF .”

        Are you trying to have your cake and eat it too, or are you trying to just force your will on others? In case you don’t know, I’ll tell you a secret, “You are not anyone’s momma on here, so you cannot control anyone.”

        For a recap of what transpired, I’ll just post a reminder of what happened in regards to this issue surfacing on the internet.

        There was a member of your church which attends your church (her words, not mine) that told an non Message believer in the denominational world about a sermon a high ranking minister in your church PUT ON THE INTERNET where he intentionally took something out of context just so he could have an excuse to lambaste another local church in the area. This tirade highly offended the person that wasn’t in the Message because she was a woman and she didn’t understand the concept in the Word of where a sister’s proper place was in the house of the Lord. This person then came on a forum, where I was, asking questions which was obvious to me that she had just been highly offended. I calmed her down a little in the aspect of that question and advised her not to blog about the situation because she could easily overstep her bounds and cause more harm than good. She did not listen to my advise because she was so offended that a minister would take something out of context just to blast another church. The only thing she accomplished was causing others to get offended (like the originators of this blog) and going off half cocked and falsely accusing the innocent which had nothing to do with her blog. She also accomplished the task of making the ministry at your church so ashamed of what they were preaching and broadcasting to the internet that they took it off the web unless one had a password to log onto their site. If they weren’t doing anything wrong or to be ashamed of, why would they have to try to hide what they were doing? Why would they preach one thing for the live service and extremely edit it for the archives? Why would a lay minister in the church be allowed / encouraged to dedicate a whole service for the purpose of trying to split a different church in a different area? Caching it worked.

        Now after the fact, you want to try to change what happened as if you are an innocent little angel trying to correct the wrongs in the world. Have you ever paused to think, that this isn’t the first time something like this has occurred with the same exact people that are in the leadership now? Oh that’s right, you would like to think nobody has any firsthand experience with the actions of the people that caused the split in your area. Pull your head out of the sand please.

      • Cal says:

        Brother shalom , my head is out of the sand … And am not interested on your accusations towards our ministry , I choose to fellowship at cbw and am happy there and The Lord is blessing me through the ministry . Nothing you say will matter, I know you’re not the perfect minister , just by reading what you post on this blog it doesn’t even make me want to take your advice I can decern your spirit and am convince that I do not wanna associate myself with your kind on teaching …. Sorry . I know no one is perfect and certainly not looking for the perfect pastor cause I will not find him , and you are far away from being one … I believe what happened here in cbw is already under the blood and therefore I can not go unto it , if God himself cannot find it . And who am
        I to questioned if it’s under the blood or not ? Thats not what the bible teaches … Am sorry brother shalom but I have my position and if am wrong I ask you pray for God’s revelation on all of our behalf (cbw) , but I do not see a right spirit in your post if am wrong i pray God forgives me . I know I’ve said time after time that I was going to leave the blog but I did not and am sorry for being untruth … I’ll not say it again since I have a hard time holding myself from reading the comments that sends me to reply , I’ll try try but I won’t promise .

      • ShalomShalom says:

        If the blind follow the blind…

        Anyway, how can something be under the blood when you are currently still doing what you claim is under the blood? For example, a person asks forgiveness for murder publicly while he is still in the midst of a private killing spree. That’s nothing but politics.

        I believe Jesus said go and sin no more. He didn’t say go and continue on in sin and murder anyone that disagrees with the sin you are continuing in.

      • Cal says:

        Bro shalom what amazes me the most is that you seem to have all rhe details and infos of all that’s going in our services you stream and even know everything that’s archives … Why do you seem to care so much about what’s going on in cbw ?? How does it help you by streaming our services if you have such hatred against our ministry ??? Oh you just go there to find what to comment about , what to talk about ?? Nice intentions , reallt nice intentions so
        much like Christ isn’t it?? If something is so ungodly like you say about our church , than why waist your time .. I think you have other issues …maybe jealousy ?? You can’t have what they have and therefore all you do us hate on them .. I don’t know am verry confuse , really confuse .. You hate this do called “system ” but yet you seem to be in touch with all they do …You’re Being kind of hypocritical . Leave the blind follow the blind , let us be in our darkness , pray for us so God can show us the light .. You’re minister for CRYING OUT LOUD , when do you ever have time to study?? It seems as if you’re on this blog everyday … I wonder how you do it , blog, be negative and display hatred against the children of God , and the next thing you do is preach … Whow .

      • ShalomShalom says:

        Sis Cal,

        I do not hate anyone.

        I hope that one day you’ll be able to look into the Word without a bias and let God’s Holy Spirit lead you instead of your emotions.

      • Cal says:

        Bro shalom I hope so too , but for now I think am happy at cbw and God Is for me to be there . Am sorry for being a bit hard on you like really am sorry .. May God help us all , it wasn’t a good idea to start this blog anywas . And to anyone that I have offended please forgive me . And to my dear brothers that had started this blog , can you guys please please delete this thing ?? It’s taking all of us way too far . God bless you all , I think with God’s help I’ll be leaving this blog for good .. This will be my last post here , it wasn’t a good journey at all I must confess .

  134. Daniel Kihangu says:

    If this can help, here is my email address dgalubible@hotmail.com for anyone needed. I can extend or give mor explanation to my post via email if you what.

    I love all, from the depth of my heart….

    Brother

    Daniel Kihangu

  135. Gary White says:

    Sis CAL

    Shalom , I dont see were you are going with your thoughts and quotations here. I am sory to say I do understand where he is comming from. Sis CaL I sincerely hope that you are right in your assesments. Pray that the Lord will it either make it a reality or make it real to those of us who have been doubting.

    Bro Daniel thanks for at least taking the time to hear out both sides, I know we as believers are desiring the same things.

    God Bless GW

    • Cal says:

      Bro Gary , I really hope and pray that God makes it a reallity to all of us to leave this thing behind and move on with our walk with God that is my prayers , there’s no gain to all of these accusations …. Let just move on, and have a better attitude … You guys have gone to LWF be happy were you are and stop looking back , if you think the whole cbw will go to hell because of what has happened , pray for us that The Lord can reveal to us otherwise …. Let us all pray for love because that’s something that a lot of us are still missing … Thank you

  136. DustInTheWind says:

    Gary you should definitely check into spellcheck. The others…. like I said….hope heaven is huge because I wouldn’t want to be stuck for an eternity with these type of people…..from the preachers and down! Pathetic!! That bubble a lot of you live in is enough to make me puke my GUTS out!! Worldly people must look at this and laugh and be happy they aren’t involved!!!! Pathetic!!!

  137. Gary White says:

    Sis CAL

    Thanks I wish CBW well. I think it would be a big help if you & others would encourage Bro Ed to stay off the subject from the pulpit. As this site proves that others hear Bro Eds preaching against us at Lwf & then take that as Gospel & then feel compelled to echo what they heard from CBW to every one else. This fact that I have just described is one reason why I ever responded on this web site to begin with.

    When the split occurred I had always planed to still visit CBW. But things got so hostile there that this just was not possible. I realize they have there side to tell to & want to remain open to it.

    I must confess I still have a longing to embrace the saints & leadership at CBW. It may sound strange but I think the Lord wanted some to stay at CBW & support the work there. I also believe the Lord needed others to make a stand (speaking the truth in love) & leave. Its not been easy for us; renting a church month to month, sharing it with unbelievers etc, not knowing what tomorrow holds but we press on & will continue to covet your prayers.

    DIW hows my spelin? (just kidding)

    God be with you till we meet again Gary White

    • Cal says:

      Hey bro Gary , it does not sound strange at all , I also think it’s a good thing that the spilit happened , maybe it did not happen in a good way but it’s good it happened .. Yeah it might not be easy for you guys to be renting with unbelievers and all , but am praying that God makes a way for you all somehow . All am asking is to leave this matter alone and move forward with our walk with the Lord. Oh and yes your spelling was great as always .

  138. Gary White says:

    Well Sis CAL thanks for looking at my writings through rose colored glasses, if you dont know what that means it means exercising grace & barring with my language communicating challenges.

    God bless GW

  139. Daniel Kihangu says:

    Now let’s end this blog by praying for our precious brothers, servants of God, ministers deacons and the bride of Christ in the pacific North West. Let’s pray for our brother Lance Leroux, brother Anthony Abma, brother Abe Pienaar, brother Chris Maritz, brother Didier Kalambaie, brother Jake Dick, brother John Andes, brother Ernie, brother Murphy, brother Thomas Rae, brother Ed Byskal and all other servants who gave themselves for the work of God…
    If all of us can have the same attitude, no matter what church we’re going to or what pastor we’re following, God’s work will prosper and move forward.

    God is not interested in our disputes and discussions, He is interested to His own Word and His people (the Bride of Christ)…

    I send my greeting to all of you who participate in this blog and express what they had in their heart. May God bless brother Shalom Shalom, Gary White, brother Batsi, brother Madiba, sister Cal and all of you who participate in this blog.

    May God bless you all, I personally love you and promise to pray for all of you…

    Your brother in Christ,

    Daniel Kihangu dgalubible@hotmail.com

    • ShalomShalom says:

      I don’t agree with Bro Madibawitbank starting this blog in the first place.

      Good intentions aren’t always in the will of God.

      • Daniel Kihangu says:

        Yes, I agree with you, but now let’s put that aside. As we know each other by this blog and did express our feelings, it’s time for us to be reunited, fighting for one cause: Win the lost to Christ.

        The Bible said that when Christ will be lifted up, He will draw men (soul) unto Himself. It is time for us to lift our Lord and Savior up, not men ( ministers), and He will bring a great revival to swipe the pacific North west coast.

        Our churches will pass away, our intentions, motives and discussions as well; but the cause that’s set before, the Word of God, will never pass away.

        May God fill His servants with that sincere desire in their hearts to get the last soul in pacific west and other places. May God bless Living Word Fellowship and all the saints, those redeemed by the precious blood of Lord Jesus, bless Divine Love Tabernacle, Cloverdal Bibleway, and all other group or individuals who pray constantly to seek the will of God in their community.

        My beloved brothers and sisters, the blood of this country, and especially this community where we’re living in, is now in our hands, one day we will respond for the time God gave on earth and for those lost sheep that we never get to look for, while we were so much preoccupied to protect and fight for our influence.

        Things happen, but now is the time to forget and keep pressing on to the cause.

        Sincere greetings of love to all of you. You mean so much in God’s eyes.

        God bless you deeply.

        Brother Daniel Kihangu

  140. Gary White says:

    Dear Saints

    We know that one day soon the Roman controlled Government will seek to shut & hunt us down. Lets be careful that we dont give satan a reason to come after us before the appointed time.

    I feel that it is important to hold our Churches of The Living God accountable,, especially when laws are broken, & trespasses that are criminal in nature take place.

    If we dont police ourselves or allow the Lord to correct us, then the authorities will move in & do it for us. And we know the authorities are put there by GOD HIMSELF.

    I think it would be wise for the pastures ,ministers & lay members to be sensitized & made more aware of the devestational effects to young people that are sexually abused.

    I highly recommend viewing of 2 DVD documentaries; one is called the Hand of God, & the other is Deliver us from evil. Some of the content is ugly but this is a ugly subject that we need to know about so that we might help others in the future. Here are some things that are covered.

    POPE BENIDICT XV1 the current pope was a cussed of conspiracy to cover up sexual abuse in the U.S. AT THE VATICANS REQUEST President Bush granted the pope imunity from prosecution.

    Well over 100.000 victims of catholic clergy abuse have come forward in the U.S. Alone.

    Experts say more than 80% of sexual abuse victims never report their case.

    I hope & pray that every one of us will help the LORD in some way to bring an end to such sad stories.

    God be with you till we meet again Gary White

  141. Madiba says:

    Shalom Shalom,

    If you don’t agree with this blog then why do you just quit. It is very simple. There too much hatred in your postings anyhow.

    Bro. Gary: Let me point it out the people attempted to kill Ed Byskal’s influence and they failed miserably.

    Can’t you just let go!

    Madiba

  142. Madiba says:

    Shalom Bro. Gary White,

    I went through your comments again and came across the section where you say that you provided a proof that other elders were consulted and that I failed to honor my promise to come to LWF.

    My trip to Canada is still on but I have to make a trip to India which I had not anticipated but I want to meet you when I am in Canada so that we can talk face to face as Christians should. By the way I am not yet sold on your story that other elders have consulted. In due course I should be able to tell you what the Pastors that the ‘elder’ (singer) in your church have to say for themselves. I thought that since you guys consulted them extensively they should have by now visited your assembly because few visitors who I have seen coming to your church are people who had issues with your church even though when you were still part of the ministry there.

    I really have to meet with you and will communicate my arrival dates in Canada so that we can talk these things face-to-face.

    NB: No need for Shalom Shalom to respond as this is meant for Gary White. I need no clutter in my interaction with Gary White.

    Thanks

  143. ShalomShalom says:

    Brother,

    I forgive you for your comments against me. Just because you do not agree with what I say doesn’t mean what I say is filled with hatred.

    I am sorry that you can’t plainly see that you totally missed the will of God by starting this blog in response to someone that had the same spirit on her as you. The sad thing is, you have brought more reproach on what you claim to believe than she has.

    As for how you see me, until you are looking off a railroad bridge into the waters of a river because of what someone “in leadership” has done to you, I will not expect you to ever understand. As Bro Branham said, “there are three kinds of believers in every crowd.” That includes the clergy.

  144. Gary White says:

    Bro Madiba

    Greetings, Please help me to understand why you are saying to let it go?

    I do not know if these outside ministers were ever contacted, I do know that it was sugested to Bro Ed that we bring them in, he wasnt interesred.

    If it would be the will of the Lord to meet that would be great. I am all ears to anything that might help.

    God Bless GW

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Brother,

      He is just grasping for straws to try to justify something which can NOT be supported by the Word.

  145. DustInTheWind says:

    This blog is as entertaining as the National Enquirer. Whatever happened to “letting a sleeping dog lie (lay)”? I’ve been murdered, beaten, defamed, falsely accused etc by “believers” in the past… and no amount of trying to “get to the bottom of it” or “fixing it” will help you guys in any way! The wheel will keep turning and the ones who created the HELL will eventually be crushed and die by their own sword! So take comfort in knowing that plus God has His eyes on ALL of this, doesn’t matter how “high ranked” a pastor, preacher, deacon etc is…their position means NOTHING! Only to THEM and their “followers” does it mean something…and they will all find out one day that manipulation, smoke and mirrors and popularity polls mean jack squat to God.
    I wouldn’t lose anymore sleep over it boys! I see and hear of a lot of previous deacons and “members” who couldn’t wait for a pat on the head from the ministry, and chomping at the bit to carry out orders, these are the same guys who now are moaning and whining and complaining! Let it go! Be happy you are free of it if you found it that bad….divorce yourself of it!
    I had many bad things happen to me and my family at the hands of the ministry and deacons way back when….and now these same people are crying the blues about being hurt and upset and being called Dathan and Korahs?? Haha!! Seems to me that the deacons used to take people into a room and threaten with “Ananias & Saphira”. Didn’t seem to be a big deal to them to degrade and scare and intimidate a person back then….but now these same people are moaning and whining and hurt!! Big deal!!! How does it feel when that wheel turns?? I have to catch myself sometimes and not smile too much! And you guys want to spend eternity together when you can’t even get along here!! Good luck with that!! :)

  146. Daniel Kihangu says:

    Brothers the best thing to do as of now is to stop this blog. There is no good intentions on both sides. Instead your reactions are just a matter of provocations and discussions that will lead no where. It’s been three years since the split happened, I believe there is no way to have a good conclusion in both side, since both parties complained of being hurt by the event.

    But as believers, the best thing is to forget what had happened and have our focus on the things more important for our walk. We don’t know how many time remain for us here on earth, so let do what is more important.

    Brother Shalom I strongly agree with you that this blog doesn’t have any good reason. But as you already realized that, please don’t take it so personal, since it won’t bring anything good to your soul.
    Brother Gary White there is no need of giving your opinion of what you thing was right or was not right. As you can see it’s been more than a month you kept on posting your comments, but it never brought any good conclusion.
    Brother Madiba, I am a believer at CBW, and still consider brother Ed as my pastor, but I strongly disagree with you starting this blog. There are lots of way to give tribute to a man of God than posting something that will cause other to be offended. Our prophet said, “If you brother is wrong, love him anyhow.” There is no need of pointing finger to a brother and tell about is mistakes. Love and prayer can do better than that.

    I really wish that this blog will stop some day, there will be no winner, no loser in this blog; instead lots of hatred will be display. Don’t let the devil separate you, we are believer of one God, the Lord Jesus Christ, who send a prophet, William Branham, with one message. Our groups and affiliations doesn’t have any meaning in God’s eyes. ONLY HIS WORD.

    May God keep us humble to love Him more and more, not our affiliations,

    The Lord bless you,

    Brother Daniel Kihangu

    • ShalomShalom says:

      From what I see, the brother that started this blog is looking at the whole situation from a Catholic point of view and has no idea of how the Message teaches concerning situations like this.

      His whole motive from the beginning wasn’t to reconcile anyone back to the truth, but only to combat something that was threatening his own little empower of control in his congregation by someone that knew nothing about the Message except the way he conducted himself with her. His means of man made power and ruler-ship in the house of God is against the Message and Bible. And his spirit and way of dealing with those who do not understand the Message is against the Message and Bible.

      If he had the correct spirit when opening this blog then he wouldn’t have went off with a hot temper and false accusing the innocent because he felt the way he controls others was threatened. The reason he opened this blog wasn’t to protect another. The reason he opened this blog was to protect himself. It was a system he was trying to protect. It wasn’t the Word or a person. It was only the means in which he controls others that he was trying to protect. Why else is he still trying to force a Catholic way of dealing with issues in the house of God on others contrary to Mathew 18:14-20? He is in favor of the control of man instead of Holy Spirit control.

      When someone points out the Word to him, he doesn’t deal with the truth of what that person has said. He only chooses to attack that person. So if Jesus said it wasn’t the will of the Father which is in heaven for one to parish, but he is intentional trying to make others parish… …that shows his spirit is not in alignment with the Spirit of the Father.

      I suppose he would also say the prophet of God was also hateful when he said…

      …”And if they cannot stand, and won’t take rebuking, they are illegitimate and not sons of God.” A man blows up, “Humph!” A woman, “Oh, I ain’t going to listen to that any more, I don’t have…” All right, go ahead, illegitimate. That’s exactly. But a real child of God will take his correction, saying, “Yes, Father, it’s Your Word; I’ve got to straighten up now; I’ve got to do what’s right.” You know that’s truth, isn’t it? A illegitimate is the one that always backs off and the fly in the soup, to just kind of upset something. But the real child of God admires to be rebuked and straightened up. (61-0210 ¶e23).

  147. Daniel says:

    Brothers the best thing to do as of now is to stop this blog. There is no good intentions on both sides. Instead your reactions are just a matter of provocations and discussions that will lead no where. It’s been three years since the split happened, I believe there is no way to have a good conclusion in both side, since both parties complained of being hurt by the event.

    But as believers, the best thing is to forget what had happened and have our focus on the things more important for our walk. We don’t know how many time remain for us here on earth, so let do what is more important.

    Brother Shalom I strongly agree with you that this blog doesn’t have any good reason. But as you already realized that, please don’t take it so personal, since it won’t bring anything good to your soul.
    Brother Gary White there is no need of giving your opinion of what you thing was right or was not right. As you can see it’s been more than a month you kept on posting your comments, but it never brought any good conclusion.
    Brother Madiba, I am a believer at CBW, and still consider brother Ed as my pastor, but I strongly disagree with you starting this blog. There are lots of way to give tribute to a man of God than posting something that will cause other to be offended. Our prophet said, “If you brother is wrong, love him anyhow.” There is no need of pointing finger to a brother and tell about is mistakes. Love and prayer can do better than that.

    I really wish that this blog will stop some day, there will be no winner, no loser in this blog; instead lots of hatred will be display. Don’t let the devil separate you, we are believer of one God, the Lord Jesus Christ, who send a prophet, William Branham, with one message. Our groups and affiliations doesn’t have any meaning in God’s eyes. ONLY HIS WORD.

    May God keep us humble to love Him more and more, not our affiliations,

    The Lord bless you,

    Brother Daniel Kihangu

  148. Gary White says:

    Bro Daniel

    I am sorry that you doubt my intentions, believe me when I say I continually check my motives, continually. I am saying what needs to be said for the good of all message believers. I have very strong reasons for believing this. It is not meant to hurt anybody. All though I know hurts may come, but in this case silence is not an option for now.

    Please watch this video of David Wilkerson just before he died. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGMG_PVaJoI

    God richly bless you my brother Gary W

  149. DustInTheWind says:

    Post my remarks guys….come on! Freedom of speech!!??

  150. Daniel says:

    Thanks brother Gary,

    I was so bless while listening the video, that’s true statement, and really blessed me. Thanks to much again.
    I was now able to see that we have the same vision but might be different in what we mean really. The anguish that this man of God talks about is more about the lost souls. That what I kept telling you. I strongly recommend you to listen or read again, “Standing at the gap”, the prophet of God give more details of even what he was going through in his own life, he lost the filling for the people, and God urge him to stand at the gap for the people as Moses did. That should be the same thing for all other christian.

    Forgive if I said anything that hurt you, but my point was to let you all know that we should have anguish for the lost souls, those still know nothing about the gospel of life or the message of the hour.
    Proving that one brother is wrong and another is right will lead us no where. In my first reaction I asked you all to meditate or go over the book of Nehemiah, Ezra and Haggai, and that also what David Wilkerson talked about.
    Brothers the real anguish we should have has to be express by prayers and supplications, not by letters, emails or blogs. LOVE IS MORE STRONG THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
    Please keep it mind we do not have enough time remaining on earth, one day we will regret the time we spent fighting each other.

    May God bless you, my dear brother Gary and your entire family, I love you and promise to pray for you. As long as God will make me remember your name, I will do so. I am sorry, it might be possible that I don’t know you physically, but in spirit we are brother and we are one.

    God deeply bless you, my precious brother…

    Brother Daniel Kihangu

  151. DustInTheWind says:

    Why haven’t mine been posted????? Cuts too close to the bone?? Seems it was ok to massacre and destroy a solid, upright family back then without any regret! Say it how it is!! Let it out! I’ve got enough ammo to blow it right out of the water!!!! U didnt’t even post my earlier comments!! One day….soon!!

    • ShalomShalom says:

      Bro,

      Please hold your peace. There are times when it is evident that others are trying to intentionally push your buttons, so they can ignore the truth of what has been spoken in order to attack the person speaking the truth to make that person seem evil and ignore the truth of what has been conveyed.

      They did this to Jesus Christ when they ignored the truth He relayed and called him illegitimate.

      They did the same thing to Bro Branham by lying that he taught men were supposed to leave their wives and find their soul mates

      Those on this blog have done the same thing to me because they couldn’t say anything against the truth I conveyed.

      Why would it surprise you if they are trying to do the same thing to you?
      Be wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove.

  152. DustInTheWind says:

    Thanks Bro Shalom, I’ll take your advice for sure. That was very kind of you to remark back to me. I appreciate it.

    Regards…

  153. Gary White says:

    Bro Daniel

    Thanks & I love you & yours to & will pray for you. The clip I inserted here of Bro David Wilkerson is not meant to be directed at any one person or church, I just meant it as a general heads up to us all, starting with ME for sure. His words reminded me of Bro Branhams message of staying in line.

    God bless GW

  154. Bro. Madiba says:

    Shalom Brother Gary,

    Could you please drop me an email bmadiba@lighthousetabernacle.co.za as I need to communicate with you the dates on which I anticipate to be in Canada.

    I miss DustintheWind….razor sharp comments that came from him are memorable, and of course you ShalomShalom. I hope that you toned down a bit.

    Regards,

    • ShalomShalom says:

      I’ve been posting all kinds of real negative stuff about you on another forum
      http://forums.delphiforums.com/branham/messages?msg=3623.243

      I’m just teasing!!!

      We were just conversing with someone that didn’t understand the way we believe.

      Anyway, you keep pressing the battle for the Lord and submit to His perfect will in the area where you dwell, and pray that we also submit to His perfect will in the area He has placed us.

      If you are ever in the Nashville, TN area, I’ll buy you a coffee. If we don’t meet on this side of Jordan, we’ll meet on the other.

      God bless you and yours,

  155. TruthMarchesOn says:

    Greetings to all.
    I am a young person, currently attending CBW, and now hold a position of some importance within it. I can say that I literally have heard and seen all there is to see in this matter, via as many means as would supply it to me. I have watched families of close friends be wrenched apart by falling on opposite sides of the opinion, seen homes destroyed by lies, and had my house beat upon by storms. But…I am happy to say…

    This house still stands.

    My decision to stay at CBW was an easy one. It was NOT that I wanted to retain my position (which at the time was significantly less involved than it is now), and to be fair, I was even promised a greater position in the new church if I would leave and show my support for the new group. It was simply this: 2 years before any details of any kind emerged, the Lord had shown me in no uncertain terms that Bro Ed Bykal was my pastor. Bottom line. And that no matter what human mistakes he made, the case was settled. Thus, when these details emerged, I can honestly say I didn’t pray a single time for God to show me who my pastor would/should be. The foundation was built, there was no need to tear down and rebuild. My prayer was simply for God to show me how best to handle my attitude, and to be sensitive to the deep wounds of the others.

    I do not doubt that many have a valid reason for ‘jumping ship’, as it’s been said to me. I respect your decision, and I have a strong conviction that you need to follow God’s Will for your life, no matter where that takes you to worship. I will say though, these two points, speak my peace and be done.
    I was more than slightly troubled when the new churches started to hear so many of my fellow young people cite their only reason for leaving CBW was ‘my friends are over there’. I’ll be as blunt as I was then…your friends aren’t going to feed your soul and get you ready for a Rapture. That said, I respect anyone who can tell me that they genuinely feel that Bro Lance or Bro Didier is their pastor,as they prayed, and acted according to their spiritual convictions.
    Secondly, I personally know Bro Gary and would hope I still have the respect I know I once did from he and his family, even though we are now on opposite sides of the equation, so to speak. I have spent hours on the phone with both he and his wife, discussed matters in his home many times, and attempted to bridge gaps where I could between his convictions and my department. Although I can’t help but point out the fact that 90% of the music problems we agreed upon no longer exist in CBW, due to the fact that the person ‘creating’ them no longer attends CBW, but rather LWF now. I’ve always found that somewhat ironic.
    In any case, Bro Gary…I’m still keeping my promises to you, the best I can. You asked me to hold up the standard and be a Godly young lady, a true example to others. I’m trusting the Lord is helping me achieve that. And for the record, no rock & roll is being introduced, people are writing more music (including myself) and the Godly atmosphere is the best it’s ever been at CBW in all the years I’ve grown up under Bro Ed’s ministry.
    No matter your opinion in this matter, I trust that the Lord will allow some healing in this, on all sides. Just know that those at CBW faced as much pain as our comrades in the Lord elsewhere. We were left to deal with the mistrust of our friends in our pastor, the constant barrage of emails all sent to ‘inform’ us of more details so we could make an ‘informed decision.’ It was a lot for a 21-yr old to take it, I’ll admit it…especially since the person at the root happened to be my mentor, someone I’d admired very much. But in the end, those of us left have banded tighter, new friendships have been made, and new talents discovered that otherwise could have lain unused for years. All things work together for the good, after all.
    God bless anyone who took the time to read this. This was a message from the heart of someone who stood in the middle, saw both sides, made an informed decision, stayed strong, and lived to tell about it!

  156. gary white says:

    Dear sis at CBW

    You certainly have made my day, I am very glad to hear of the good things happening at CBW.

    Please accept my sympathezes to you & our fellow brothers & sisters at CBW. I think you know my heart well enough concerning my past comments on these matters. I said what I said with the intention of trying to bring to light certain issues that our prophet clearly warned us of. I tried very hard to keep my own personal disappointments/anger/emotions etc out of my running commentaries on this site.

    May I say this,according to Bro Branham, the ultimate responsibility in many of the issues here or any church falls squarely on the backs of our pastors,(especially music) I think it a little incorrect to only blame song leaders,piano players, choir leaders etc

    That being said I firmly believe that you & I have a solemn responsibility to if necessary, in a loving & respectful way encourage our leadership & each other to remain on the strait & narrow way. We must never allow our selves to lose site of the fact that the Bible is our absolute. Like Bro Billy Paul ounce said; if we will line up the back sites (message) with the front sites (Bible) we will hit the target every time.

    We as humans naturally tend to gravitate towards human leadership, I dont think this is necessarily wrong, but about 99% of the time we go overboard & eventually lift our leaders up to high, bringing about the treacherous intrusion of a man between Jesus & His wife. I personally know of no pastor or congregation in the message,who willfully wants this. But I also believe it is a common occurrence.

    Bro Branham like John the Baptist had to decrease so that HE could increase, now that they are gone should we insert some one else to take there place? No. But we also recognize that the pastor/ministry are love gifts to the body & they are there for our benefit & not there own only.

    Finally dear sis let me say ounce again how thrilled & proud I am that you are progressing/prospering in the Lord. Tell Bro Ed, Bro Tom, Bro John etc I said hello & I thank you all for your patience with me.

    God be with you till we meet again Gary White

  157. Madiba says:

    Thanks for correction! I guess it is the danger of posting comments when you very sleepy. Wow! I guess being sleepy and compounded that English is not my language is bound to make some of my statement to sound either grammatically correct yet nonsensical or either way. However, I am versed in the heavenly language and thank brother Gary can grasp me in that realm.

  158. ShalomShalom says:

    Bro Anonymous,

    Please have patience. Our motives and objectives of being Christians are not to be antagonistic, nor is it cast condemnation upon individuals just because we do not understand their position of understanding.

    It is okay to ask the brother questions, but he has already stated that he is under time constraints and he has other obligations which come first (family, job, prayer etc) before reseaching the specific dates of the events he knows took place. These matters are only an issue of reference. So if you have extra time to find the specific date this transpired on, feel free to go listen to the sermons yourself. ( http://www.livingwordfellowship.ca/sermons.html ) You can listen to them without having to log on with a password. Bro Branham said the best answer you can give a man is “Come and see, don’t stay home and criticize.”

    I know this issue was adressed, but I do not know the exact date. It happened this year. If you would like for me to go back and give you a more specific date, it’ll take me a few days.

    However, if you are looking for an opportunity to claim something wasn’t done the way you like, that’s a matter of opinion. However, before you form an opinion one way or the other, please consider what I told Tsanning on Sep 16, 2010.

    How do you know Tsanning wasn’t fulfilling the type of the king of Babylon because Zedekiah would not listen to the counsel of Jeremiah? Now you wish to condemn Jeremiah because of the actions of the Babylonians? Jeremiah never told the Babylonian king to put Zedekiah’s eyes out, so why would you wish to condemn the innocent for the actions of outsiders because Zedekiah refused to obey the Word?

    ——————————————————————-
    Sep-16 7:29 am
    3356.99

    Sister,

    I am sure you are trying to do God a service with your blog.

    However, I’m not so sure it is His will.

    When the children of Israel sinned against God, He would stir up adversaries against them to drive them back to Him. However, once they returned back to the Lord, the adversaries didn’t fare too well. (Philistines, Syria, Babylon, Hitler etcetera)

    However, if the Lord tells a person to smite, then that person should because the man that refused to smite the prophet who told him to was slain by a lion as soon as he departed from the prophet in I Kings 20.

    Since we don’t know the hearts of others to know when they have repented or not, we should be careful not to offend our Lord. We do not want to the a fulfillment of Matthew 18:6-7.

    When we sin multiple times against our Lord with the same offence even though in our eyes it isn’t as great as others, we are still grateful for the grace and mercy God grants to us. And once He forgives us, He cleanses us from ALL unrighteousness (I John 1:9). So if the Lord forgives us from our sins, how can we think we can hold someone else over hell?

    However, the one who sent you the information has the greater sin (John 19:11).

  159. ShalomShalom says:

    Bro Arielle777,

    I have no idea who you are talking about. I am not who you think I am, nor do I know who you are talking about.

    If you have a problem with that brother, perhaps you should contact him and talk it over. Holding a grudge against whoever it is you think I am is only hurting yourself. It isn’t hurting me. It isn’t hurting the one you are accusing me of being. It is only hurting you. Don’t you know that studies have shown that diseases and other infirmities can be caused by holding a grudge in your heart? Do yourself a favor and do what Jesus Christ told you to do in Matthew 5:43-48.

    If you wish to confirm that I am not the one you think I am refer to the post I made under the welcome thread on this blog. You can find it at this link http://godsordinances.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/welcome/

    If you don’t believe that, I don’t know what else to tell you. Perhaps you could ask the ones that have had me under surveillance off and on for the past ten years. I wonder if they’ve figured out if I’m human or not yet. **smiles**

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